Originally Posted by Clay

We all know that the fed gov doesn't work for American citizens anymore regarding illegal immigration. But I lay the responsibility for both that and the illegal Mexican invasion where it belongs, on the employers of illegals. The employers of illegals are the ones providing the jobs magnet that draws the illegals here in the first place. Apparently employing illegals is so lucrative that the employers of illegals have all the money they need to buy all of the politicians, including Presidents, they need to keep the borders open and the cheap labor coming in. They also have been able to afford legions of activist/lobbyists who are paid to try and convince America that the American economy can't get along without illegal labor. In reality, it's just the employers of illegal's pocketbooks taking a hit that they're worried about. Another important function of these activists is to deflect attention away from what these employers of illegals are actually doing. They've earned their money because you never hear of anyone wanting to tar and feather the bastard employers of illegals.

The ONLY thing that is going to effectively reverse the illegal Mexican invasion is to remove the jobs magnet that brings the illegals here in the first place. It's a no brainer. Everyone knows that the fed gov is dysfunctional because of all the paid for lobbyists and bought off politicians. At the states level, however, Arizona and Oklahoma passed tough on illegals laws that forced MANDATORY e-verification of an employees legal status on businesses, and REMOVES the business licenses of repeat offender employers of illegals, which effectively dried up the jobs magnet for most of these illegals, which in turn resulted in a mass self deportation of many of the illegals. All at little expense to American taxpayers.

It makes it a little easier to fight the illegal Mexican invasion when you realize who is really behind it and fully responsible for it, the employers of illegals

Originally Posted by Rooster

Sounds good to me. We all have known that for some time though...all includes the politicians...and not much has been done. The pols don't seem to listen much to what the people want...they go for the $bucks. That's what we have to change...get rid of the lobbies and contributions.

Originally Posted by Clay

Is this a trick question? The fed gov is dysfunctional and Washington politicians have been bought off regarding illegal immigration, so I guess we wouldn't attack the fed gov, would we? What I said was that illegal immigration could be stopped at the states level, one state at a time. We wouldn't get anywhere attacking CEOs either. By requiring MANDATORY e-verification of the legal status of every employee an employer of illegals could no longer play dumb about illegals working for the employer of the illegal, because the employer of illegals was required to have have checked on the legal status of every employee. If and employer of illegals is caught with an illegal on the payroll, they would be in deep dodo. Being able to remove or suspend the business license of repeat offender employers of illegals is the most powerful tool to have in your arsenal and is the one thing that employers of illegals would fear the most and would think long and hard as to whether they want to continue hiring illegals. With these laws enacted in every state the jobs magnet for illegals would dry up so fast it would make your head swim. And whether you agree or not drying up the jobs magnet is the ONLY way we are ever going to stop the illegal Mexican invasion.

Originally Posted by SaintMalaclypse

Let's see...if I was an employer of Illegals, and I just lost my business license, what ever would I do?

Establish a new business, corporation, fictional entity, and sell all my assets to my new company. People with money would be back in business before the ink dried on the citations.

The businesses are able to get away with it because A) The Federal and State governments allow the huge influx of illegals, and B) The Federal and State Governments don't do enough to enforce our existing laws.

Now, who put the Governments in power? We, the People.

Illigeal Immigration is a problem for as long as We, the People allow it. Businesses are in it for the money, and if We leave illegals laying around, why would We expect profit-seekers to ignore such a valuable resource?

Business aren't about protecting our country. Why lay the blame at their doorstep? The Government is supposed to protect us, and We are the ones responsible for making sure they do their job.

Instead, we're content if they keep tossing refund checks our way and pave the road to Pure Digital TV for Every American.

Originally Posted by Istok

He has a point here. If the government stopped the influx of cheap labor business would look to other methods to make a profit or just simply make a little less profit by raising their prices. Here in LA when someone is moving everyone says go to the corner and get a couple Mexicans to move your stuff into the truck. Now if they were not there in the first place you would have to pay a bit more and hire a legitimate moving or labor company. Would you go broke because you paid a bit more for the legitimate, insured company? Hell no, you might do it yourself but you will find a way to do it.
You cannot blame the users of the benefit, that will happen no matter what. Here is a hypothetical. If the government said we will be granting welfare based on the honor system without any verification. How many people that you know will be applying and getting free welfare? You know that if a benefit is there and is unregulated people will abuse it. You may have pride and will not do it but there is a hell of a lot of other people who will. That is why the government has verification before welfare is issued. Same with immigration, the government can allow it but it must be monitored and controlled and you cannot depend on the beneficiaries to do the monitoring.
Now the fact that the government is owned by the beneficiaries through lobby groups is a whole different story.

Originally Posted by danielpalos

I think the only problem is that we are not reducing public and private sector costs with better public policy. We would not have a problem with migrant, black market labor participation if we had a market friendly work visa scheme to deter such practices. With a market friendly work visa scheme, any current illegal would simply be fined and issued a work visa. Illegal problem solved. Any foreign labor market participants could simply apply for a work visa without the expense of the fine. A market friendly work visa could also incorporate catastrophic forms of insurance to reduce those costs to the states and their private sectors.

As for states "cracking down" on people from out of State, they no longer have the authority to enforce customs since it expired in 1808. Section 9: "The Migration or Importation of such Persons as any of the States now existing shall think proper to admit, shall not be prohibited by the Congress prior to the Year one thousand eight hundred and eight, but a tax or duty may be imposed on such Importation, not exceeding ten dollars for each Person." That the states are usurping federal authority doesn't surprise me. The states are also denied and disparaged the power and right to "impair the Obligation of Contracts" according to our Constitution.

It only confirms that people don't really have a problem with illegals or illegality, if they can blame it on less fortunate illegals and their illegality.

That some people believe we have a unitary form of federal government is the result of a faulty education system that does not adequately inform the electorate on how their form of federal government was designed to work.

Why is it that some people would prefer communist style forms of prohibition, rather than public policy that achieves what some of the Founding Fathers intended when they wrote the Constitution?

The private sector has a Ninth Amendment power and right to create social contracts that may result in employment. They are not charged with customs enforcement and should not have to incur that expense since they already pay taxes to the federal government.

We could be ensuring that our economy remains the most productive economy in the world instead of lowering our standard of living through the use of command economics better suited to totalitarian regimes.

Originally Posted by Clay

Yep, it is a good plan isn't it.

The ACLU has already sued Oklahoma but Oklahoma's tough on the employers of illegals law held up. The ACLU does a pretty good job of going in and overwhelming say a city, with a limited legal budget, but a state is another matter.

Originally Posted by danielpalos

With a market friendly solution, there would be no illegals flooding the US market for labor, only legals flooding the US market for labor and generating revenue that could lower our tax burden, and lower other public and private sector costs.

Simply advocating the greater expense of more police-state functionality will not be conducive to lowering our tax burden, and lowering other public and private sector costs, that could result in raising the standard of living of any market participants in our mixed market economy.

Originally Posted by danielpalos

What is it about solving your current "illegal" problem, with a market friendly work visa scheme that can lower our tax burden, and lower public sector and private sector costs, that you have issues with? If it is merely, with illegals and that form of illegality, then there is a market friendly solution to that problem.

The amusement park sector already makes a profit with that business model.