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03-31-2008, 06:04 AM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Southern Illinois
Posts: 3,170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintMalaclypse
Yes, but the nature of "now" is that Americans are, by vast majority, English speaking persons, yet our government has to shell out quite a few of our tax bucks paying translators, printing everything in multiple languages, and recording everything with multiple narrators.
Additionally, the "nature of speech" works just a damned site better if you and your audience speak the same one. Sure, in time the current language won't resemble English much, if at all. But right now, the majority of Americans speak only English. The rest of America doesn't NEED to learn it, per se, but they ought to cope with the fact that we speak English predominantly here, and not expect the majority of us to finance changes that benefit only the minority.
We've gotten to the point where we're expected to be ashamed that we want everyone in America to speak English. It's ridiculous.
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I would than point you to the true problem of Illegal Immigration. The Welfare State.
Which is the backbone of every illegal alien problem that America has.
__________________
"It is the Right of the People to alter or abolish the Government"
Declaration of Independence
"Never trouble another for what you can do for yourself."
Thomas Jefferson
"If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand."
Milton Friedman
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03-31-2008, 04:01 PM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Southern Illinois
Posts: 3,170
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I would have no problem with making English some form of official language. However, I would not accept it, without adding some protections to indigenous and minority languages.
The Amerindian Languages, Pennsylvannia Dutch, Creole variants, etc...
I mean, shit. I don't want to turn America into Nationalist France and commit Linguicide on every language that is not french. France is trying to wipe out Occitan, Basque, Breton, Galo, and such.
Far be it from me to want to see America's diversity disappear, even if that diversity is linguistic.
__________________
"It is the Right of the People to alter or abolish the Government"
Declaration of Independence
"Never trouble another for what you can do for yourself."
Thomas Jefferson
"If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand."
Milton Friedman
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04-04-2008, 01:26 PM
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Political Novice
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Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 17
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language matters
it is true we are a melting pot,(but) there is one common thread that we have and that is our (english)language ,for years irish,german,and japanese people etc. have took (pride) in learning the language of their adopted home and i might add 40-50yrs,ago without all of the computer software that is avaliable now that makes it easy and simple for anyone to learn.when these people are working they need to speak english not only for proper communication skills with the public,but also for safety of themselves and of co-workers in the workplace which should be mandated by osha regulations,when they are on break or away from work then i have no issue with them speaking their native tongue.
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04-07-2008, 02:54 PM
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Political Junkie
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: I go where the jellyfish are plentiful and the air burns like a whore's rash.
Posts: 283
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Quote:
Originally Posted by satv365
I would have no problem with making English some form of official language. However, I would not accept it, without adding some protections to indigenous and minority languages.
The Amerindian Languages, Pennsylvannia Dutch, Creole variants, etc...
I mean, shit. I don't want to turn America into Nationalist France and commit Linguicide on every language that is not french. France is trying to wipe out Occitan, Basque, Breton, Galo, and such.
Far be it from me to want to see America's diversity disappear, even if that diversity is linguistic.
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By making it "official", I mean solely in terms of Gov't interaction with the People. If every American wants to speak their own homemade language, so be it. As long as they don't appear in court demanding a translator at my expense; as long as they don't require welfare application forms be printed in 87 different languages at my expense. Privately, I have no problem with anyone speaking anything they like; if there's a market for McDonald's menus in Swahili, then by all means print 'em. If there's a streetcorner gossip fest going on in Mandarin, cool...my loss.
It's the government financing of those who refuse to learn the prevailing language that costs me money; in the private sector, it isn't mandatory and has no unavoidable costs to me or any other taxpayer.
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Global Warming is my favorite color.
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04-07-2008, 09:24 PM
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Political Mastermind
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: "Cradle of the Civil War"
Posts: 2,074
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I don't care what they speak in their homes. But the official language of America is English! Hyphenated Americans are not Americans, were all Americans. There is only room for one allegiance that is to America. A person that says he is American yet something else is not American at all. There is only room for one language, that being the English language. Teddy Roosevelt taught me that.
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"I hope our wisdom will grow with our power, and teach us, that the less we use our power the greater it will be." Thomas Jefferson
"The conservative movement has been hijacked and turned into a globalist, interventionist, open borders ideology, which is not the conservative movement I grew up with." Pat Buchanan
"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government"
Thomas Jefferson
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04-08-2008, 09:53 AM
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Political Junkie
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 199
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carsayzylum
I agree absolutely with that. Illegal immigrants shouldn't be here, but anyone who is here doesn't HAVE to speak English. It's not the same here as in other countries. Around the time of the Industrial Revolution, a description of the immigrant rush came in stating that they had no interest in learning the language or contributing to US economy, and came only to make more money to send home. This was being used to describe esp. Italians and Hebrews.
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Hebrews are not people, it's a language.
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04-08-2008, 04:06 PM
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Political Junkie
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 199
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Language is one of the most important parts of culture. Therefore, the preservation of culture means the preservation of language. A language barrier creates a barrier of communication. Without communication, one cannot adequately express ideas, thoughts, emotions, comprehension, needs, wants, likes, dislikes, etc. Communication is the bridge between individuals and a society. A society or a group of people sharing the same culture (thereby sharing the same language) makes up a state.
Though English is not expressed as the “official” language of the United States, it is implied. Consent works both ways, so why should language be any different? Yes, the U.S. has many different people within its borders due to immigration (I am one of them). No one is faulting those who choose to speak their native tongues within the home or around their own people in the private sphere. I believe diversity is a beautiful thing and people should cherish and preserve their cultures. That stated, however, in the real world and in the public sphere, away from family, friends, and those who share one’s language, one will not be able to progress in said society without the ability to communicate. Therefore, logically it would follow that if one wants to progress in society (i.e., climb the success ladder), one needs to know the dominant spoken language of said society. Most immigrants when making a home elsewhere, while keeping their culture, will also assimilate into the culture of their new state of inhabitance. This would first and foremost include learning the language, primarily because one cannot survive anywhere without some means of an income, which requires a job, requiring one to be able to communicate with those around them.
In the U.S. it’s not just a question of language, but a question of who doesn’t care to learn it—the illegal immigrants. No one has an issue with legal immigration. The problem in the U.S. mostly arises out of the illegal immigrants from Mexico who disregard and disrespect our laws, as if they don’t apply to them. Most Mexicans come here illegally in high numbers, don’t bother learning English, and have the audacity to make us learn Spanish. I know Russian, English and I took French in high school. If I wanted to speak Spanish, I’d move to a Spanish-speaking country.
I understand that they are looking for better jobs and opportunity. What immigrant isn’t? The whole point of coming to the U.S. is for a better life that the third world cannot provide. But if my family can flee communist Soviet Union AND come here legally AND learn English, so can anyone else. If one culture is going to have its language posted everywhere alongside English, then it’s only fair that all languages within U.S. borders should be equally represented. I am Russian, for example, therefore, we should have the Russian language posted on signs and there should be a “press 812 (or whatever) for Russian” operator on everything that has “press 2 for Spanish”. I completely agree that this is ridiculous, it’s supposed to be. But one minority should not have special treatment over the others, especially when it’s due to pure laziness.
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04-10-2008, 03:16 PM
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Political Junkie
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: I go where the jellyfish are plentiful and the air burns like a whore's rash.
Posts: 283
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I agree with everything you said except the laziness. It's not laziness if there's no reason to do something. We encourage them not to learn English by accomodating them in their own langauge.
We, as a country, encourage everything about illegal immigration. We don't run them off, so we encourage them to come here illegally. We don't deny them welfare, so we encourage them to cost us money. We don't wipe out businesses that hire illegals, so we encourage them to work without paying taxes. And we print/record everything in Spanish, so we encourage them to keep it as their only language.
NONE of that can be blamed solely on the illegals themselves...not until we, as a country, have actually done everyhting we can to fix the problem.
So, what are We, the People, doing to end it? We elect leaders from both partieswho not only don't want to fix it, they want to make it worse. Nice fix, America.
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Global Warming is my favorite color.
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04-10-2008, 03:52 PM
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Political Junkie
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 199
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintMalaclypse
I agree with everything you said except the laziness. It's not laziness if there's no reason to do something. We encourage them not to learn English by accomodating them in their own langauge.
We, as a country, encourage everything about illegal immigration. We don't run them off, so we encourage them to come here illegally. We don't deny them welfare, so we encourage them to cost us money. We don't wipe out businesses that hire illegals, so we encourage them to work without paying taxes. And we print/record everything in Spanish, so we encourage them to keep it as their only language.
NONE of that can be blamed solely on the illegals themselves...not until we, as a country, have actually done everyhting we can to fix the problem.
So, what are We, the People, doing to end it? We elect leaders from both partieswho not only don't want to fix it, they want to make it worse. Nice fix, America.
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I completely agree with you as well. This is definitely the other side of the same coin. The first thing that needs to go is the birthright program, allowing them to cross the border illegally and have their children be U.S. citizens! The welfare program in this country needs a complete makeover, if not a complete eradication.
Yea, the republicans want to make a North American highway, for their cheap labor gains and the democrats feel sorry for them, or something. The situation our country is in is quite dismal. And my family brought me here for "a better life"...sad.
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