Opinionum commenta delet dies, naturae judicia confirmat.
- Cicero, De Natura Deorum, II, ii: 5.

“Time obliterates the fictions of opinion, and confirms the decisions of nature.”

Yes, but the Earth has experienced periods in the past where carbon levels and global temperatures were a lot higher, such as during the Eocene Period (which started about 55 million years ago and lasted for about 20 million years). Scientific evidence seems to indicate that even polar temperatures at that time were about equivalent to the US Pacific Northwest's climate today. Why? What caused it? I can pretty much guarantee it wasn't industrial pollution.

During the Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum (PETM), atmospheric carbon levels were estimated to be 2000-3000 parts per million (ppm), compared to about 380 ppm today. If entirely natural processes could account for such extremes then, then why is it so far-fetched to assume that they couldn't easily account for the relatively modest (in comparison) temperature variations we're witnessing today?

Hi ....not to jump in on your conversation but I would like to make a comment. That period of time caused extinction and was an era of severe climate change. It was caused by methane hydrate beneath the worlds oceans that was released rapidly during the volcanic ridge/volcanic period of the earths history- the land regions were in a completely different configuration then they are today.

That was most definitely not a time period of any industrial or man made pollution .

True that could happen again however scientists have studied and tested extensively and that methane kick is not occuring from volcanos and undersea ocean ridges (fortunately for us-we would be knocked off pretty quick!) and there is no slow leak to explain the past 100 years carbon emissions.

Methane gases as you know can cause rapid CO2 rising and severe climate change. Scientists can test for this and todays rising temperatures are correlating exactly to the CO2 from burning fossil fuels and not methane kicks from volcanic and undersea sources.

Oh and a footnote Methane gas is twenty times as strong as carbon disoxide released from burning fossil fuels. There are pockets of methane trapped deep beneath the sea and some in the permafrost. Those deposits are being monitored but if melting permafrost released methane gas we would be in serious trouble pretty quick. Not much you could do at that point-I think one reason climate scientists want to preserve the permafrost and slow down increased temps caused by CO2 emissions from fossil fuels is massive melting could reach the deep pockets of methane eventually.(Hopefully that will not happen in any significant quantity considering the extinction that occurred during the PTEM period from methane gas.)

I think effects of CO2 emissions from burning fossil fuels is just one of several good reasons to seek alternative fuels.

So cow farting is still the biggest problem? Even with American burger munchers...

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Cussing out low class inbreds isnt uninteligent, its honest

Good typing is not inteligent its dexiteritous.

Everything you just said is total bullshit

Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-V8Ek...eature=related

"L" not the biggest but it does release methane- kind of funny.

Here is a breakdown-

http://www.ecobridge.org/content/g_cse.htm

>>>I've never understood the attitude. Is dumping millions of tons of greenhouse gas into the air GOOD for the environment?

Maybe its Normal?.......


Two New Books Confirm Global Warming is Natural; Not Caused By Human Activity
Tue Jan 30 2007 10:02:32 ET

Two powerful new books say today’s global warming is due not to human activity but primarily to a long, moderate solar-linked cycle. Unstoppable Global Warming Every 1500 Years, by physicist Fred Singer and economist Dennis Avery was released just before Christmas. The Chilling Stars: A New Theory of Climate Change, by Danish physicist Henrik Svensmark and former BBC science writer Nigel Calder (Icon Books), is due out in March.

Singer and Avery note that most of the earth’s recent warming occurred before 1940, and thus before much human-emitted CO2. Moreover, physical evidence shows 600 moderate warmings in the earth’s last million years. The evidence ranges from ancient Nile flood records, Chinese court documents and Roman wine grapes to modern spectral analysis of polar ice cores, deep seabed sediments, and layered cave stalagmites.

Unstoppable Global Warming shows the earth’s temperatures following variations in solar intensity through centuries of sunspot records, and finds cycles of sun-linked isotopes in ice and tree rings. The book cites the work of Svensmark, who says cosmic rays vary the earth’s temperatures by creating more or fewer of the low, wet clouds that cool the earth. It notes that global climate models can’t accurately register cloud effects.

The Chilling Stars relates how Svensmark’s team mimicked the chemistry of earth’s atmosphere, by putting realistic mixtures of atmospheric gases into a large reaction chamber, with ultraviolet light as a stand-in for the sun. When they turned on the UV, microscopic droplets-cloud seeds-started floating through the chamber.

“We were amazed by the speed and efficiency with which the electrons [generated by cosmic rays] do their work of creating the building blocks for the cloud condensation nuclei,” says Svensmark.

The Chilling Stars documents how cosmic rays amplify small changes in the sun’s irradiance fourfold, creating 1-2 degree C cycles in earth’s temperatures: Cosmic rays continually slam into the earth’s atmosphere from outer space, creating ion clusters that become seeds for small droplets of water and sulfuric acid. The droplets then form the low, wet clouds that reflect solar energy back into space. When the sun is more active, it shields the earth from some of the rays, clouds wane, and the planet warms.

Unstoppable Global Warming documents the reality of a moderate, natural, 1500-year climate cycle on the earth. The Chilling Stars explains the why and how.

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If it ain't broke, Don't Fix It!

No matter where ya go, there ya are..

EVIRO MENTALISM IS A CUNT SPIRACY

HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TELL YOU LITTLE CUNTS THAT

THE AQUARIAN CONSPIRACY

In the spring of 1980, a book appeared called The Aquarian Conspiracy that put itself forward as a manifesto of the counterculture. Defining the counterculture as the conscious embracing of irrationality -- from rock and drugs to biofeedback, meditation, "consciousness-raising," yoga, mountain climbing, group therapy, and psychodrama. The Aquarian Conspiracy declares that it is now time for the 15 million Americans involved in the counterculture to join in bringing about a "radical change in the United States."

Stanford environmentalist Stephen Schneider said: "We'd like to see the world a better place . . . to get some broad-based support, to capture the public's imagination. That, of course, entails getting loads of media coverage. So we have to offer up scary scenarios, make simplified, dramatic statements and make little mention of any doubts we might have . . . Each of us has to decide what the right balance is between being effective and being honest."

The teachings of Jiddhu Krishnamurti can be found in books, films, university courses, workshops, progressive schools that he started, and a dynamic foundation that bears his name. As of 1990, his works have been translated into forty-seven languages, including Swahili; though them his influence is felt worldwide. His ideas, which revolved around the centrality of individual consciousness free from the programmed filters of religion and culture, attracted people as varied as George Bernard Shaw, Greta Garbo, Bertrand Russell, Aldous Huxley, Joseph Campbell, Albert Einstein, Alan Watts, Jackson Pollack, Anne Morrow Lindbergh, Christopher Isherwood, and Charlie Chaplin.

In 1990, Bruce began meeting with a student organization at Stanford University called Higher Consciousness. After presenting himself and sitting in on presentations by Stanley Krippner, Nina Graboi, Dennis McKenna and others, Bruce and the leaders of Higher Consciousness planned and put on a major conference, "The Bridge: Linking the Past, Present and Future of Psychedelics." Keynoters were Timothy Leary and Terence Mckenna, and John Lilly, Howard Reingold, Robert Anton Wilson, Francis Huxley (nephew of Aldous), Stanley Krippner, Stephen Gaskin, and Arthur Hastings were among the 60 presenters. After the conclusion of this 1991 conference, Bruce planned his next event, Bicycle Day, celebrating the 50th anniversary of the discovery of LSD in 1993. Bicycle Day was the name Bruce gave to the "50th Anniversary of the discovery of LSD," and Bruce in collaboration with Rick Doblin of MAPS and a student organization at his old almamatter, UC Santa Cruz, put on a celebration in the school's Performing Arts theater. Sharing the podium with Bruce and Rick Doblin was Oscar Janiger, founder of the Albert Hofmann foundation. Videos of Humphry Osmond, Albert Hofmann and Ken Kesey were shown, and also re-enactment of the last LSD trip of Aldous Huxley was performed by Laura and Francis Huxley.

The crisis of environmentalism has been developed as a means to bring about a one-world government: "Through a skillful wedding of socialism, New Age Pantheism and a manufactured climate of despair over a 'dying planet', these powerful individuals (David Rockefeller and Edmund de Rothschild) are creating a climate of fear which will see mankind not only accept, but demand, a one-world government to deliver us from environmental apocalypse. This one-world government will, of course, be the capstone of their planned New World Order. "In searching for a new enemy to unite us, we came up with the idea that pollution, the threat of global warming, water shortages, famine and the like would fit the bill," declared members of the Club of Rome in a sweeping 1991 report on global governance. "All these dangers are caused by human intervention . . . The real enemy, then, is humanity itself."

ITS TRUE , I'M NOT A LIAR OR A FAGGOT OR A CUNT

I'M A GOOD GRAMPA

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If you don't KNOW where you come from...you WILL wind up going nowhere.

That goes for Ideas, institutions as well as individuals :-I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUncnWxjUXM

http://search.msn.com/results.aspx?q...IONS&FORM=MSNH

Sam - I agree that the methane hydrate release is one of the leading explanations, but I think it's far from certain that this was the cause of the PETM. It's my understanding that there are several viable possible causes for what happened then.

Regardless, though, my point is that there have been several periods of global warming and cooling throughout the Earth's history - all of which have had natural causes, and not all of which can be definitively explained by science. What caused the ice ages to occur and retreat? Was it volcanic action? Solar cycles? Or was it a combination of natural events working in concert?

I just think there are too many things under heaven and earth that cannot be explained by science to accept that the root causes of global temperature cycles are fully understood. This may be an old-fashioned and outdated point of view, but I still subscribe to the point of view that the Earth is so vast and natural processes so powerful that they dwarf anything that we ourselves are capable of, even with our technology and industry.