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Old 08-08-2008, 12:01 PM
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Default What is a Holocaust denial

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What is Holocaust Denial?


What is 'Holocaust Denial'?
By Barbara Kulaszka


In recent years, considerable attention has been devoted to the supposed danger of "Holocaust denial." Politicians, newspapers and television warn about the growing influence of those who reject the Holocaust story that some six million European Jews were systematically exterminated during the Second World War, most of them in gas chambers.

In several countries, including Israel, France, Germany and Austria, "Holocaust denial" is against the law, and "deniers" have been punished with stiff fines and prison sentences. Some Jewish community leaders have called for similar measures in North America. In Canada, David Matas, Senior Counsel for the "League for Human Rights" of the Zionist B'nai B'rith organization, says: [1]

“The Holocaust was the murder of six million Jews, including two million children. Holocaust denial is a second murder of those same six million. First their lives were extinguished; then their deaths. A person who denies the Holocaust becomes part of the crime of the Holocaust itself.”

Often overlooked in this controversy is the crucial question: Just what constitutes "Holocaust denial"?

Six Million?

Should someone be considered a "Holocaust denier" because he does not believe – as Matas and many others insist – that six million Jews were killed during World War II? This figure was cited by the International Military Tribunal at Nuremberg in 1945-1946. It found that "the policy pursued [by the German government] resulted in the killing of six million Jews, of which four million were killed in the extermination institutions." [2]

Yet if that is so, then several of the most prominent Holocaust historians could be regarded as "deniers." Professor Raul Hilberg, author of the standard reference work, The Destruction of the European Jews, does not accept that six million Jews died. He puts the total of deaths (from all causes) at 5.1 million. Gerald Reitlinger, author of The Final Solution, likewise did not accept the six million figure. He estimated the figure of Jewish wartime dead might be as high as 4.6 million, but admitted that this was conjectural due to a lack of reliable information.

Human Soap?

Is someone a "Holocaust denier" if he says that the Nazis did not make soap from the corpses of murdered Jews? After considering the evidence – including an actual bar of soap supplied by the Soviets – the Nuremberg Tribunal declared in its Judgment that "in some instances attempts were made to utilize the fat from the bodies of the victims in the commercial manufacture of soap." [3]

In 1990, though, Israel's official Yad Vashem Holocaust center “rewrote history" by admitting that the soap story was not true. "Historians have concluded that soap was not made from human fat. When so many people deny the Holocaust ever happened, why give them something to use against the truth?," said Yad Vashem official Shmuel Krakowski. [4]

Wannsee Conference?

Is someone a "Holocaust denier" if he does not accept that the January 1942 "Wannsee conference" of German bureaucrats was held to set or coordinate a program of systematic mass murder of Europe's Jews? If so, Israeli Holocaust historian Yehuda Bauer must be wrong – and a "Holocaust denier" – because he declared: "The public still repeats, time after time, the silly story that at Wannsee the extermination of the Jews was arrived at." In Bauer's opinion, Wannsee was a meeting but "hardly a conference" and "little of what was said there was executed in detail." [5]

Extermination Policy?
Is someone a "Holocaust denier" if he says that there was no order by Hitler to exterminate Europe's Jews? There was a time when the answer would have been yes. Holocaust historian Raul Hilberg, for example, wrote in the 1961 edition of his study, The Destruction of the European Jews, that there were two Hitler orders for the destruction of Europe's Jews: the first given in the spring of 1941, and the second shortly thereafter. But Hilberg removed mention of any such order from the revised, three-volume edition of his book published in 1985. [6] As Holocaust historian Christopher Browning has noted: [7]

“In the new edition, all references in the text to a Hitler decision or Hitler order for the `Final Solution’ have been systematically excised. Buried at the bottom of a single footnote stands the solitary reference: `Chronology and circumstances point to a Hitler decision before the summer ended.’ In the new edition, decisions were not made and orders were not given.”

A lack of hard evidence for an extermination order by Hitler has contributed to a controversy that divides Holocaust historians into "intentionalists" and "functionalists." The former contend that there was a premeditated extermination policy ordered by Hitler, while the latter hold that Germany's wartime "final solution" Jewish policy evolved at lower levels in response to circumstances. But the crucial point here is this: notwithstanding the capture of literally tons of German documents after the war, no one can point to documentary evidence of a wartime extermination order, plan or program. This was admitted by Professor Hilberg during his testimony in the 1985 trial in Toronto of German-Canadian publisher Ernst Zündel. [8]

Auschwitz

Last edited by canuck27; 08-08-2008 at 12:04 PM.
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Old 08-08-2008, 12:11 PM
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Humm, typical crap for deniers.

Trying to get the exact number of deaths is not denying, particularly if the number, even if sharply lower is supported by evidence. That is called history.

Denying involves denying historical facts.

And, oh, the holocaust was actually over 10 million, you are forgetting all the gypsies, jehovah witness', slavs, socialists, handicaps, and other undesirables that were also killed.
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Old 08-08-2008, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by TakuanSoho View Post
Humm, typical crap for deniers.

Trying to get the exact number of deaths is not denying, particularly if the number, even if sharply lower is supported by evidence. That is called history.

Denying involves denying historical facts.

And, oh, the holocaust was actually over 10 million, you are forgetting all the gypsies, jehovah witness', slavs, socialists, handicaps, and other undesirables that were also killed.
You are correct.Over 10 million and the documentation has been available to the public for over 60 years.
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Old 08-08-2008, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by sotmfs View Post
You are correct.Over 10 million and the documentation has been available to the public for over 60 years.
This has always been a pet peeve of mine. All too often Jews have harped the 6 million number, often for political gain, but I have always thought that doing so was counterproductive. In stressing just the six, they make it easier for the deniers to deny the full amount because 4-6 million have already been marginalized. It is always easier to defend the tapestry than a thread, no matter how large that thread is.

Now, again, only jews and gypsies were targeted solely for their genes, and a majority of the deaths were jews, and as such they do deserve special consideration in total, however while many jews do acknowledge the full amount of people killed, I think it needs to be stressed more than it is.
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Old 08-08-2008, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by TakuanSoho View Post
This has always been a pet peeve of mine. All too often Jews have harped the 6 million number, often for political gain, but I have always thought that doing so was counterproductive. In stressing just the six, they make it easier for the deniers to deny the full amount because 4-6 million have already been marginalized. It is always easier to defend the tapestry than a thread, no matter how large that thread is.

Now, again, only jews and gypsies were targeted solely for their genes, and a majority of the deaths were jews, and as such they do deserve special consideration in total, however while many jews do acknowledge the full amount of people killed, I think it needs to be stressed more than it is.
I went to a holocoust museum in New Mexico a few years ago.
It was started by a local jewish ww2 vet.
It also had sections on native americans,blacks in america,the armenian genocide,and cambodia.
It was interesting.
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Old 08-09-2008, 09:10 AM
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Jews were given to eat ham instead of bagels.
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Old 08-09-2008, 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by canuck27 View Post
Jews were given to eat ham instead of bagels.
Could you go into more detail?
That is not a stupid question,is it?
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Old 08-10-2008, 08:12 AM
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It"s a lie detector...No Jew can pass it.
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