What I was referring to was something perhaps in reverse. That Americans may put him on too high of a pedestal, like perhaps putting him on a list of the greatest generals, because of his plot against Hitler.

I think it goes both ways in some cases.

Modern generals have a disadvantage when being compared to generals prior to the 20th centruy because they do not come up with overall strategies and in some cases the tactics are only partly their creation. Plus, the generals who led their men and actually took part in the battles seem to get favored higher as well.

I don't think so Dom; I realize he was a very smart, tenacious, and pragmatic commander. 20th century military history is one thing I do know quite well. Rommel was a far superior commander than Montgomery and others he faced; yes, his downfall was the lack of support that Hitler continually came up short with...the generals on the Eastern front also suffered greatly because of being cut off from proper support. It was not until later that I read he was part of a plot to try and take out Hitler, but that was no surprise to me because Rommel was much more loyal to the old Army (Reichswehr), Paul von Hindenburg, and the Weimar Constitution/Republic (much less to the National Socialists and the Wehrmacht under Hitler).

Liddell-Hart wrote a book that said that Scipio was the best ever. He said it was because he was always able to adapt to different scenarios and won several different ways. He also never lost a battle he commanded and he beat Hannibal, which figured into Hart's opinion I imagine. Hannibal may not have lost at Zama to Scipio if he would have had all of his force stick it out - tough to fight with mercenaries.

I wasn't referring to you, but people in general. I think Rommel was perhaps the greatest of the WW II generals, but he is often referred to as one of history's great generals. I just don't know if there is enough there to put him up with some of the greatest generals, partly because of reason I stated above. Modern generals don't play as big a role as generals did before the 20th century, and certainly not as big a role as ancient generals.

In many ways Generals and heads of states were synonymous in terms of who was in charge...you could say the height of this was around the Franco-Prussian War. Look at Japan before WWII also, there was no difference between the commanders and the 'heads of state,'...decision flowed through the military.

Now, about the only modern day country that this is one in the same would be Cuba with Fidel Castro...well, now Pakistan looks to be going back that direction though.

Geronimo, with the entire American army after him, he was pure stealth and cunning, having never been trained, he made great decisions and had the biggest heart.

My second choice would have to be Jeb Stewart.

Patton, George S.

Alexander the Great

Attila the Hun

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Icy, I hadn't thought about Geronimo but your right about his skills as a leader.

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Obviously I have to add Nathan Bedford Forrest to this list. Forrest was never properly supplied and was generally outnumbered. However due to this tactics of quick attacks and breaking off the engagement he was able to get Union troops at bay. His main tactic was to make the opposing troops believe he had more men then he actually did and talk them into surrender. He lost fewer men as a percentage of his troops than any other general or either side.

His tactics are still studied in military colleges around the world.

By the way, since I know many of you will attack this because of his former occupation as a slave trader (one of several endeavors he engaged in) you need to understand that he was responsible for far fewer deaths of African Americans than Sherman was. When Sherman marched through Georgia and South Carolina destroying everything in his path he was responsible for the deaths of thousands of innocent civilians both white and black.

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George Washington was the GREATEST GENERAL.........in my book

Prophecy Truths -- General George Washington's Vision of the Future of America

GENERAL GEORGE WASHINGTON'S ANGELIC VISITATION AT VALLEY FORGE
AND THE VISION OF THE FUTURE OF THE UNITED STATES


This article is a reprint of a newspaper article first published in the NATIONAL TRIBUNE in 1859 and reprinted in 1880 (vol. 4, no. 12, Dec. 1880). Later reprinted in THE STARS AND STRIPES newspaper owned by the NATIONAL TRIBUNE, in 1931 and the latest printing on December 21, 1950. This article is printed in its entirety by permission of the NATIONAL TRIBUNE. The vision was related to a reporter named Wesley Bradshaw by an officer who served under General Washington at Valley Forge, named Anthony Sherman. In the vision, Washington sees three great trials to overtake the Union. These were the Revolutionary War, the Civil War, and the greatest threat, a war fought on the soil of the United States near the time of Jesus' return to reign on the earth. It is this third battle, that hold's our interest as the day draws near.

Washington Had Vision of Trials Facing Nation

For many years copies of Washington's vision at Valley Forge as related by one Wesley Bradshaw, told to him by Anthony Sherman, have been in existence. The earliest publication was in 1859, 1880, in 1931 and is being printed once more. THE STARS AND STRIPES, December 21, 1950.

The last time I ever saw Anthony Sherman was on the Fourth of July, 1859, in Independence Square. He was then ninety-nine years old, and becoming very feeble. But though so old, his dimming eyes rekindled as he gazed upon Independence Hall, which he came to visit once more. "Let us go into the hall," he said. "I want to tell you of an incident of Washington's life -- one which no one alive knows of except myself; and if you live, you will before long see it verified.


"From the opening of the Revolution we experienced all phases of fortune, now good and now ill, one time victorious and another conquered. The darkest period we had, I think, was when Washington, after several reverses, retreated to Valley Forge, where he resolved to spend the winter of 1777. Ah! I have often seen the tears coursing down our dear commander's care-worn cheeks, as he would be conversing with a confidential officer about the condition of his poor soldiers. You have doubtless heard the story of Washington's going into the thicket to pray. Well, it was not only true, but he used often to pray in secret for aid and comfort from God, the interposition of whose Divine Providence brought us safely through the darkest days of tribulation.
"One day, I remember it well, the chilly winds whistled through the leafless trees, though the sky was cloudless and the sun shone brightly, he remained in his quarters nearly all the afternoon alone. When he came out, I noticed that his face was a shade paler than usual, and there seemed to be something on his mind of more than ordinary importance. Returning just after dusk, he dispatched an orderly to the quarters of the officer I mention, who was presently in attendance. After a preliminary conversation of about half an hour, Washington, gazing upon his companion with that strange look of dignity which he alone could command, said to the latter:



The Vision

"I do not know whether it is owing to the anxiety of my mind, or what, but this afternoon, as I was sitting at this table engaged in preparing a dispatch, something seemed to disturb me. Looking up, I beheld standing opposite me a singularly beautiful female. So astonished was I, for I had given strict orders not to be disturbed, that it was some moments before I found language to inquire into the cause of her presence. A second, a third, and even a fourth time did I repeat my question, but received no answer from my mysterious visitor except a slight raising of her eyes. By this time I felt strange sentiments spreading through me. I would have risen, but the riveted gaze of the being before me rendered volition impossible. I assayed once more to address her, but my tongue had become useless, even thought itself had become paralyzed. A new influence, mysterious, potent, irresistible, took possession of me. All I could do was to gaze steadily, vacantly at my unknown visitor. Gradually, the surrounding atmosphere seemed as though becoming filled with sensations and luminous. Everything about me seemed to rarify, the mysterious visitor herself becoming more airy, and yet more distinct to my sight than before. I now began to feel as one dying, or rather to experience the sensations which I have sometimes imagined accompany dissolution. I did not think, I did not reason, I did not move; all were alike impossible. I was only conscious of gazing fixedly, vacantly at my companion.


"Presently I heard a voice saying, 'Son of the Republic, look and learn,'

ANYONE WHO CONVERSES WITH ANGELS IS A O K in MY BOOK ;-)

The Book of Life, (Sefer HaChaim ספר החיים), is the allegorical book in which God records the names and lives of the righteous

Book of Life - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'M MAKING A LIST AND CHECKIN IT TWICE :-)

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That goes for Ideas, institutions as well as individuals :-I

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Many of the generals listed on this thread were slave owners. In fact, maybe the majority of the generals listed on this thread.