Greatest General

Sam · #11 (**permalink**) 12-30-2007, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Still Dizzy

How about General Tso? EVERY damn Chinese restaurant in the world lists General Tso's Chicken. Don't know who the hell he was but the fact that they named a chicken dish after him makes me wonder.

This is a must read for everyone-you can read it in less then two hours. You would like it-I read it every sumer.

satv365 · #12 (**permalink**) 12-30-2007, 10:33 PM

Patton

Dude was a racist asshole, but he fought the Nazis like crazy. Carried two revolvers on his belt, and punched his own troops for not standing at attention cause they where injured.

The most hateful, bigoted, ignorant fuck to ever have served in the European Theatre, but he knew how to beat the Nazis.

noneof yourbusiness · #13 (**permalink**) 12-30-2007, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam

This is a must read for everyone-you can read it in less then two hours. You would like it-I read it every sumer.

a chinese menu is must read?

noneof yourbusiness · #14 (**permalink**) 12-31-2007, 12:00 AM

Carl von Clausewitz is more modern and pertinent and has a deeper analysis then sun tzu's timeless but very general colection of passages.

Dom1 · #15 (**permalink**) 12-31-2007, 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Still Dizzy

I also vote Lee. He fought, and adapted, with what he had, rather than what most thought was needed to do the job.
He would have made one hell of a football coach.

I think Lee might have been the best American general, but Frederick the Great did the same thing as Lee did against even bigger odds and even better trained armies - and won. He fought Russia, France, Austria, Saxony, and Sweden at the same time (and Sweden was a power then).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teak

I will have to go with Sun Tzu. His principles are still taught to every Army in the world, and despite their age, they are just as appropriate today, as they were when he articulated them.

I don't think there is any actual evidence of any campaign that he fought. There is some written evidence that he was a general but we don't know anything about the campaigns to really judge his leadership. I am not sure a book can put him in the same category as Alexander and Caesar, guys who actually led men successfully.

Quote:

Originally Posted by noneof yourbusiness

Carl von Clausewitz is more modern and pertinent and has a deeper analysis then sun tzu's timeless but very general colection of passages.

Clausewitz is someone that modern strategists study, but only his works, not his actual campaigns (but they do study his main adversaries campaigns). He fought against Napoleon, but didn't lead any armies against him. For the most part, he was beaten by Napoleon and was even taken prisoner. I realize that you didn't list Clausewitz as one of the greatest generals, but if someone were to consider him I think they would have to look at the fact that he was not even the leader of the Prussian Army during the Napoleonic Wars.

noneof yourbusiness · #16 (**permalink**) 12-31-2007, 01:03 AM

"Fixed fortifications are monuments to the stupidity of man." G.S. Patton

Then he ran into Metz.

Lorraine Campaign: an Overview, Sept - Dec 1944 The staff colleges cherry picked and overly optimistic accout of the situation.

Pattons drive was through 100 miles of virtually undefended territory.
Normandy Invasion: Normandy Breakout, July-August, 1944 --*Britannica Online Encyclopedia Recquires shockwave

Patton at Bastogne commited a manuver that was done countless times by Von Manstein troops in worse condtions. -Lost Victories by Von Manstein

Dom1 · #17 (**permalink**) 12-31-2007, 01:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by noneof yourbusiness

"Fixed fortifications are monuments to the stupidity of man." G.S. Patton

Then he ran into Metz.

Lorraine Campaign: an Overview, Sept - Dec 1944 The staff colleges cherry picked and overly optimistic accout of the situation.

Pattons drive was through 100 miles of virtually undefended territory.
Normandy Invasion: Normandy Breakout, July-August, 1944 --*Britannica Online Encyclopedia Recquires shockwave

Patton at Bastogne commited a manuver that was done countless times by Von Manstein troops in worse condtions. -Lost Victories by Von Manstein

Yeah, I think Patton is so highly regarded mainly because he was a different sort of character. I am sure he was a good leader of men, but his counterpart Rommel was better IMO. It is hard to really judge some of the German generals during WW II because they couldn't act as they wanted to, such as Manstein telling Paulus they had to get out of Stalingrad.

cat's meow · #18 (**permalink**) 12-31-2007, 01:52 AM

German-Prussian General Friedrich Wilhelm von Steuben
He trained the first American Army under George Washington, he reorganized the Continental Army and guided it to victory (of course Washington deserves to be up there too).

Irwin Rommel is way up there for me too, meay have been one of the greatest military minds ever.

Napoleon should be up there too, he did create what we know as modern warfare.

Alexander the Great would be up there too.

Dom1 · #19 (**permalink**) 12-31-2007, 02:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cat's meow

German-Prussian General Friedrich Wilhelm von Steuben
He trained the first American Army under George Washington, he reorganized the Continental Army and guided it to victory (of course Washington deserves to be up there too).

Irwin Rommel is way up there for me too, meay have been one of the greatest military minds ever.

Napoleon should be up there too, he did create what we know as modern warfare.

Alexander the Great would be up there too.

I wonder if our perception of Rommel is influenced by his part in the plot against Hitler?

Rommel never got the reinforcements he needed in North Africa to hold it, and that is probably the only reason he was beaten there.

noneof yourbusiness · #20 (**permalink**) 12-31-2007, 02:09 AM

Sam Mitchum Jr wrote about Rommel extensively and also about hero destruction in America. The recent attempts by some to discredit Rommel as a nazi and a poor general. Lee, and Jackson were also mentioned.