Originally Posted by SaintMalaclypse

I'm pressured to undertake risks every day just for financial gain - I drive to work. FAR more people die in car accidents than in your experiments example. So, merely driving to work to earn a paycheck is a risk. And the higher the wages, the more I am "pressured" into taking those risks. So, by your logic, should the Government put a wage-cap in effect to stop tantalizing people out onto the roads, where they are injured ands killed in droves each day?
there is a difference between working- which is nessacary. and exposing yourself to the high risks of surgery and the risk of only having one kidney left. there is a big difference between going to work and living your day-today life, including all the dangers involved in just merely existing, and being put in a position where you endanger yourself for extra money

Learn the difference between temptation and pressure. If the risks were as great as you say, they're still voluntary risks. There is no pressure. Poor and rich alike would have the option of saying "yes", "no", or "maybe". If the poor are tempted to take risks to earn money, that is their own fault.
you've never been poor before have you?
In fact, your mentality of "the poor are too stupid to be trusted with their own decisions" is the very reason why such a program would fail. Some rich corporate mouthpiece (i.e. Congressman) would convince those like yourself that the poor are too stupid to understand what they're doing, so they need representation...an agent, of sorts...which would become a broker, who has to earn his cut, which would drive prices artificially high. Then, seeing that the broker's cut was taking profits away from the stupid poor people, then people like yourself would be swayed to agree that ALL people should have to use a brokerage, and no independent sales would be allowed. Then the market would be locked into the hands of the greedy and the governing...exactly where it is right now, but in a different fashion.

Why is it such a common notion that the poor are too stupid to say "yes" or "no" with the same foreknowledge as a rich person? How does economic status make one more or less acountable for their own decisions?

desperation and stupidity are very different. generally you aren't very logical when you are desperate, but even the most intellegent get desperate at times. intellect doesn't make you immune to desperation. or to the fact that people can use your desperation to put you in danger and use you

Much to the amazement of people like you, I've been both poor and moderately wealthy...and my IQ never changed! In both cases, I was fully capable of weighing risks, assessing rewards, and making my own choices like a big boy without liberal crusaders telling me every step to take, every form to fill out, and every decision to make.
you have no idea how much money I have. I come froma blue collar family. my mother now has a good white collar- but upper blue collar pay- job. but since she's a single parent it doesn't matter very much.

On another note: why is it you're ok with poor people PAYING to take health risks (driving, prescription meds, roller coasters, alcohol, greasy food, prostitution [I assume most people are ok with whores...only ugly wives are against them ], skydiving, blowfish, etc.), but you are against poor people PROFITING from taking medical risks on the grounds that they might be tempted to actually do it? Are only business owners allowed to profit from selling risks? How is it you're defending the poor here? Looks more like you're just against poor people making their own decisions. I assume you prefer the system where if you're poor, you simply must be incompetent, so let Uncle Sam do everything for you.

Originally Posted by coyote

The poor loose in the current system, because they have to compete with the rich in middle class for “free kidneys” Under the system I proposing the poor would win because the market place would be reduced for the free kidneys kidneys.

Furthermore let’s say a poor person wishes to donate his kidney and might suffer health risks as a result. Isn’t it better to be compensated? Therefore shouldn’t he profit from the sale of his kidney. Or let’s say he sold his kidney for one million dollars? He wouldn’t be poor anymore would he? It seems to me that if you really care about the poor you would be in favor of this option to escape poverty.

read above. I commented on most of these things already

That is not going to work. In Spain they have a system where when you die the government assumes that you wanted to donate your organs for transplantation. So upon death your organs become the property of the government and are harvested. Even there, there are shortages because organ markets are illegal.

Originally Posted by wolf_22

companies and rich people have been misusing the poor and the desperate for years. people who settle with bad doctors instead of pursuing cases to get their medical lisense taken away. people who agree to test chemicals-drugs-poisons for money, people who are given fine prnt material with legal writing that only a lawyers can understand (even very smart people can't always feel their way around these things) in order to gain their compliance, and other similair things.

why create a new way for peole to be used?
for poor people to not get their organs because the rich are buying them?



I think it will end up being more harmful than good

Originally Posted by coyote

Let's say for the moment that I am a poor person. Why shouldn't I be allowed to sell a kidney for profit? Let's say I am desperate, why should you prevent me from selling my kidney? Is itn't MY body?

Originally Posted by wolf_22

as I said, I'm torn. I think the system would be destroyed and more problems would arise if kidneys were for sale.
I think in the end the rich would buy more (not even from desperate people but because they could afford it). even today some people with fame and money can get around the system for a kidney.

Walt Paton refused to use his money and fame to cut in front of 'us little people' - how many others would do that?

Originally Posted by wolf_22

companies and rich people have been misusing the poor and the desperate for years. people who settle with bad doctors instead of pursuing cases to get their medical lisense taken away. people who agree to test chemicals-drugs-poisons for money, people who are given fine prnt material with legal writing that only a lawyers can understand (even very smart people can't always feel their way around these things) in order to gain their compliance, and other similair things.

why create a new way for peole to be used?
for poor people to not get their organs because the rich are buying them?



I think it will end up being more harmful than good