test
 |
|

07-05-2008, 12:43 PM
|
 |
Machiavelli Incarnate
|
|
Join Date: May 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 7,527
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpaul343
You think the rich are greedy? You don't think they had to work hard to earn their fortune? Everyone has been through hard times in their lives and struggled to make their fortune. It's time for you to do the same.
|
There are plenty of people in this country that have worked hard to get what they have. But there are many many more that got it off the backs of others and not lagit. You have an audit on the fed and politicians and you will find many if not all have abused their position and influence to to make themselves rich and their friends their is proof of exactly this so wake the hell up and see the whole picture.
__________________
When you came into this world you cried.
Live your life so that when you die.
The world cries. the shadow
|

07-10-2008, 12:06 AM
|
 |
Political Junkie
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 210
|
|
While I find it horrifying that some people are unable to afford a medical prescription - everyone should be entitled to free health care, in my opinion - I can't help but think what an idiot this man is.
Why couldn't he go to the pharmacy and buy some antacid for his heartburn? Surely one does not require a prescription for that.
__________________
No More Fate And No More Mystery Even As Time Falls Away I Live My Days Every Moment And Its Memory Not Only To Survive, To Die Alive.
|

07-12-2008, 12:46 AM
|
 |
Machiavelli Incarnate
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Merrimack, NH
Posts: 3,858
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by My Winter Storm
While I find it horrifying that some people are unable to afford a medical prescription - everyone should be entitled to free health care, in my opinion - I can't help but think what an idiot this man is.
Why couldn't he go to the pharmacy and buy some antacid for his heartburn? Surely one does not require a prescription for that.
|
Other than additives and a different compound with less sodium, how is an antacid different from bicarbonate of soda, which when branded as an antacid is called Alka Selzer.
|

07-12-2008, 01:14 AM
|
 |
Machiavelli Incarnate
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Merrimack, NH
Posts: 3,858
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedog
People seem to believe that Government provided health care is "FREE"..when it is anything but. Someone is going to have to foot the bill, and considering the way the government manages other endeavors of monetary concern, it will indeed cost a great deal more. And to compare a nation like one of the smaller socialist countries of Europe that depend upon the "good nature" of their enemies not to attack them, is surely a bad example, as they have no where near the cost for their military and security than does the US. If you want a valid comparison of total "regulation" by a SUPER POWER in its attempts to maintain a government trough for its citizens and the ability to remain a Super Power in conflict with other Super Powers....compare the message that history presents us in the case of the USSR. BD
|
No one to my knowledge argues that government mandates of health insurance is free, but what they do argue, and what I keep pointing out, is that the US system of for profit push the cost on other people ends up costing individuals at least as much as they would pay in places like Germany, Japan, Switzerland, and often more.
That you keep arguing that because you can't see the bills for healthcare being extracted from you in taxes of all sorts that are applied to your property, your rent, your local sales taxes, your local income taxes, your Federal taxes, your insurance premium, your wages, your employers costs of doing business, your cost of health insurance is less than in places like Germany means you believe that healthcare in the US is nearly free, because the only cost burden you create and bear is the insurance premium your employer pays.
Someone pays the bills of those who lack health insurance and the means to pay for their healthcare, and you are definitely on the list of someones, unless you are the one creating the bills without the means to pay them.
And by the way, what I argue for is mandatory health insurance for everyone, with multiple not for profit insurers available competing for your business, operating under rules imposed by these insurers on themselves as part of a true risk sharing system.
Everyone must have insurance and everyone must get insurance on equal footing, and further rules would be determined by the insurers themselves to be applied to all.
For those who can't afford the insurance, a system of income tax based coverage would pay the premium for a minimum standard policy which is offered by all the insurers.
The end result is that no one is uninsured and all claims are paid according to common rules set by all insurers on themselves.
Other than for the subsidy for those who earn too little to afford to pay the total cost of the health insurance, there would be no hidden costs that are taken out of taxes that have nothing to do with healthcare.
And the case for subsidizing the low wage earners is the same as subsidizing the protection the get from the police and the courts, from the fire department, from the schools, etc.
And before making the argument that the schools shouldn't be paid for by government, Jefferson made the point repeatedly that without the people being educated, the Constitution can't be maintained.
While the government supported private schools in many places, public schools were advocated to provide a uniform education to assimulate all the different cultures of the immigrants that were the backbone of the nation. If you argue that the government should provide ballots and other government services in multiple languages, then you can argue for replacing public schools with private schools that teach what the parents want. Public schools became the national norm in order to promote the heterogenous society that people like Rush Limbaugh demands be the norm that all conform to.
|

07-12-2008, 01:23 AM
|
 |
Machiavelli Incarnate
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Merrimack, NH
Posts: 3,858
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by wow
Bush did a good job in Texas.
His tort reform measures and tax cuts produced huge surpluses and lower Insurance premiums for all Texans, that we enjoy to this day! 
|
So, there are no uninsured in Texas? Everyone is able to see a doctor and get care without it being an emergency, and will not be bankrupted, or end up stiffing the doctor or hospital when they need care on a preventative basis or for required care? Your property taxes, or state income taxes or your and my Federal taxes aren't going to pay the bills of the uninsured in Texas?
Somehow I suspect that your Texas health insurance system doesn't pay the bills for at least a third of the care provided in Texas and that care is provided by taxes on Texans. And if taxes are paying healthcare bills instead of insurance paying the bills, then Texas doesn't have a solution to the problem.
|

07-12-2008, 01:52 AM
|
 |
Machiavelli Incarnate
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Merrimack, NH
Posts: 3,858
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintMalaclypse
No laws required here...it's a BUSINESS. By definition, they have to calculate their risks. If your job were on the other side of a raging river would you swim across and gamble that you'd get to work alive, or would you use the bridge and insure a better chance of making money instead of failing miserably?
You wouldn't have to attack insurance companies if they were so stupid that they needed laws to tell them to reduce risks and increase profits. Those companies would cease to exist by paying out more in claims than they took in from premiums.
Do you honestly feel that a business should be required to provide their services to everyone, no matter the risk to the company? Should auto insurance companies be required to insure repeat drunk drivers? Or blind people?
What insurance company would see ANY profit in insuring a man with pre-existing cancer? What insurance company would want to insure a woman whose claims in year were $76,263, but her premiums only added up to $17,456 in her whole lifetime?
Insurance is a BUSINESS, not a right. Why doesn't McDonald's sell their Big Macs for less money that they cost to make? Why doesn't your dry cleaner just charge you for the chemicals, but give you the labor for free? Why doesn't the shoe store only sell shoes that everyone in every income bracket can afford?
Why would any half-intelligent person think that if a business doesn't operate at your sole convenience, it must be because it's the law, not because it's good business sense?
|
So, you reject the idea of health insurance for anyone that has a preexisting condition, such as a genetic defect or disability due to developmental problems or accident? Doesn't that mean you are almost certain to suffer from some condition your insurer will argue it isn't required to cover? After all, paying for cancer treatment is a burden on profits, and for many people is effectively a preexisting condition present at birth. Women seem to be in a double bind: take one set of drugs to reduce risk of cancer which seem to be tied to genes, and this increases the odds of suffering heart problems, also likely tied to genes.
One of the interesting aspects of insurance in the US was that for much of history it was a mutual insurance business, the insurance company was owned by the insured. This meant there was no profit motive driving the insurance company policies, but instead the interests of all the insured who owned and were insured by the company.
Why is a for profit insurance company in any way better for the common interests of the insured?
Why should an insurance company pay any claim that it can avoid paying for your healthcare because doing so will increase its profits. And this is particularly true if you are facing a terminal condition; by denying payment and thus care, you die, and once dead are not in a position to sue the insurer, tho generally you sign away that right anyway, to force the insurer to pay for the care that will save your life. In a mutual insurance company, the insured who support such a policy in their ownership role end up denying themselves and their families that care should they need it, hardly a policy in accord with their self interest.
|

07-12-2008, 12:42 PM
|
 |
Machiavelli Incarnate
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Malibu, CA
Posts: 3,648
|
|
Finally got the statement from Medicare outlining how much they paid for my last Annual physical.... a whopping 22.4% of the total cost. Now I can submit a claim to my real insurance provider. They'll pay the remainder. THANK GOD FOR PRIVATE INSURANCE COMPANIES.
That $238 per month premium I pay Medicare plus the FICA withheld from my retirement pay every month is a RIPOFF.
__________________
If you want change stop electing "liberal: democrats and "radical" Republicans. Find and support true Conservatives; those who believe in fiscal responsibilities, individual accountability, and a smaller government, with less control of your daily life.
|

07-12-2008, 01:07 PM
|
|
Machiavelli Incarnate
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: chapmanville, wv
Posts: 4,829
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by mulp
No one to my knowledge argues that government mandates of health insurance is free, but what they do argue, and what I keep pointing out, is that the US system of for profit push the cost on other people ends up costing individuals at least as much as they would pay in places like Germany, Japan, Switzerland, and often more.
That you keep arguing that because you can't see the bills for healthcare being extracted from you in taxes of all sorts that are applied to your property, your rent, your local sales taxes, your local income taxes, your Federal taxes, your insurance premium, your wages, your employers costs of doing business, your cost of health insurance is less than in places like Germany means you believe that healthcare in the US is nearly free, because the only cost burden you create and bear is the insurance premium your employer pays.
Someone pays the bills of those who lack health insurance and the means to pay for their healthcare, and you are definitely on the list of someones, unless you are the one creating the bills without the means to pay them.
And by the way, what I argue for is mandatory health insurance for everyone, with multiple not for profit insurers available competing for your business, operating under rules imposed by these insurers on themselves as part of a true risk sharing system.
Everyone must have insurance and everyone must get insurance on equal footing, and further rules would be determined by the insurers themselves to be applied to all.
For those who can't afford the insurance, a system of income tax based coverage would pay the premium for a minimum standard policy which is offered by all the insurers.
The end result is that no one is uninsured and all claims are paid according to common rules set by all insurers on themselves.
Other than for the subsidy for those who earn too little to afford to pay the total cost of the health insurance, there would be no hidden costs that are taken out of taxes that have nothing to do with healthcare.
And the case for subsidizing the low wage earners is the same as subsidizing the protection the get from the police and the courts, from the fire department, from the schools, etc.
And before making the argument that the schools shouldn't be paid for by government, Jefferson made the point repeatedly that without the people being educated, the Constitution can't be maintained.
While the government supported private schools in many places, public schools were advocated to provide a uniform education to assimulate all the different cultures of the immigrants that were the backbone of the nation. If you argue that the government should provide ballots and other government services in multiple languages, then you can argue for replacing public schools with private schools that teach what the parents want. Public schools became the national norm in order to promote the heterogenous society that people like Rush Limbaugh demands be the norm that all conform to.
|
Clearly, that "private" service offered in the US is more "efficient" than any of the other nations that you mentioned...unless you declare waiting several months to years for some "life supporting" service that remains constantly overbooked.....as superior. Also the nations you tout as superior in fact of providing entitlement programs....also share the common trait of not being capable of "protecting" their citizenship....as clearly demonstrated time and time again by history, with the openly "capitalistic society" of the Untied States coming to the defense of such nations on many occasions. And as I said, and you tried to "deflect" by ignoring and tangent like going off on another subject....The services which you suggest, DO NOT PRODUCE taxable income, and are nothing but a "dead drain" upon the national economy, even if the funding is produced by heaping even more taxes upon our "capitalistic businesses".....just who do think will "eat" the cost of these higher taxes that will be needed to support such a non taxable source of health care....NO ONE BUT "WE THE PEOPLE" as the businesses will only pass those extra taxes down the line by raising the cost of whatever product they may be servicing the public at large with.
And of course, there is always the fact....we must maintain and be ready to implement a standing SUPER POWER military, that not only protects its citizens but an entire "hemisphere" to include our "socialized" friends to the north...that "DEPENDS" upon the US Military to protect them...so they may spend their national revenue on "entitlement social programs" as you just described. We do not have that capacity...to maintain such as you espouse. If you do not believe this....SIMPLY LOOK AT THE EXAMPLE PRESENTED BY THE U.S..S.R.....Now you are suggesting that we "follow in their bankrupted footprints?" BD
Last edited by bluedog; 07-12-2008 at 01:12 PM.
|
| Thread Tools |
|
|
| Display Modes |
Linear Mode
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|
|