Who is going to pay for rationed healthcare, the tooth fairy?
What makes you think people will not go under paying for mandated rationed healthcare?
Insurance Company premiums are lower than rationed healthcare taxes.
MA. has rationed healthcare and the average cost is $9,308. per year or 30% higher than the national average for private healthcare insurance.
I do not know of any Insurance Company that uses waiting lines for treatment or death to keep their costs lower, like rationed healthcare does.

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Drill offshore now

Upton said it well.


Other more moral countries than the US have had complete health care for all their citizens since just after world war 2. So we are lucky in the US, we don't need to go into it trial and error. All we need do is look at what has worked and what has not worked in other countries who have long been more moral than the US and didn't want to see their citizens die for lack of health care.

We don't have to invent the wheel, all we need to do is take the best design and implement it.

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Real Christians Don't Support Preemptive War



Life is not about counting the number of breaths you take , life is about the moments that take your breath away.

They have co pays in England . 20 bucks US or so per visit. Some services have co pays as well. They buy supplemental policies that cover their co pays . They have degrees in those supplemental policies that cover more than some policies do of any out of pocket expenses. But all the way around its a 100% better system that we have now in the US.

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Real Christians Don't Support Preemptive War



Life is not about counting the number of breaths you take , life is about the moments that take your breath away.

You and I see it the same way wolf.

But your forgetting the majority of the US citizens seem to be selfish idiots.

You know the kind, like the people who voted for BUsh Twice.

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Real Christians Don't Support Preemptive War



Life is not about counting the number of breaths you take , life is about the moments that take your breath away.

Okay , I know I have posted this plan on this forum at least 3 times now. But its also apparent people like WOW don't read anything but the cartoons of the streamer line across the bottom of Fox news.

So here is the plan again.

Physicians for a National Health Program - Health Care is a Human Right

Put out by the Physicians For National health care clear back in the 80"s .

Physicians for a National Health Program is a non-profit research and education organization of 15,000 physicians, medical students and health professionals who support single-payer national health insurance.

They call for a single payers system , not unlike the one in England. Ran by the states governed by a citizens board in each state elected to four year terms.

Read the link for lots of detail as well as research by all the top medical colleges and Universities. JAPA is behind this plan and so is every doctor in my family.

I will give you a taste of the plan. The rest can be found at the web site.

Our Mission: Single-Payer National Health Insurance

Greg Silver, MD (Fl.)The U.S. spends twice as much as other industrialized nations on health care, $7,129 per capita. Yet our system performs poorly in comparison and still leaves 47 million without health coverage and millions more inadequately covered.

This is because private insurance bureaucracy and paperwork consume one-third (31 percent) of every health care dollar. Streamlining payment through a single nonprofit payer would save more than $350 billion per year, enough to provide comprehensive, high-quality coverage for all Americans.


Now for the non readers like wow , we can expect them to keep spouting stupidity.


But for people like Teak who appear to be a little smarter , you have no excuse to not read this proposal and give us your thoughts on why it wouldn't work better than what we have now.

I'll wait.

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Real Christians Don't Support Preemptive War



Life is not about counting the number of breaths you take , life is about the moments that take your breath away.

CTV.ca | Stronach went to U.S. for cancer treatment: report

Comments from Canadians:

David F.
9,000 Canadian-trained doctors in the US. Why should we be surprised if some of the patients head there too? It's time for the Liberal Party to acknowledge the gorilla at the dinner table and work with the Conservatives in a non-partisan way to start thinking about fundamental changes to our health care system. This means either raising taxes to Scandinavian levels, or openly allowing privatization instead of operating in the shadows and slowly cutting services one a a time.

The story here isn't about those who get treatment in the states. It's about a liberal politician that is part of a political party that espoused the Canadian public system and vowed to ensure that no private health care was ever going to uspurp the current system. She is an MP for the party that relentlessly attacked the conservatives for their "hidden agenda" to privatize health care.

The irony and hypocracy is the story here. The rich get health care, the rest of use wait in line. All because of liberal fearmongering that does not allow for a real debate on the state of the health care system in Canada.

Joe
She joins a lengthy list of Canadians, including politicians who go to the United States to get treated.Unfortunately, the mythology that state run medicine is superior to that of the private sector, takes precedent over the health of the individual Canadian.

CTV.ca News Staff

Liberal MP Belinda Stronach, who is battling breast cancer, travelled to California last June for an operation that was recommended as part of her treatment, says a report.

Stronach's spokesman, Greg MacEachern, told the Toronto Star that the MP for Newmarket-Aurora had a "later-stage" operation in the U.S. after a Toronto doctor referred her.

"Belinda had one of her later-stage operations in California, after referral from her personal physicians in Toronto. Prior to this, Belinda had surgery and treatment in Toronto, and continues to receive follow-up treatment there," said MacEachern.

He said speed was not the reason why she went to California.

Instead, MacEachern said the decision was made because the U.S. hospital was the best place to have it done due to the type of surgery required.

Stronach was diagnosed last spring with ductal carcinoma in situ (DCIS). The cancer is one of the more treatable forms but Stronach still required a mastectomy -- which was done in Toronto -- and breast reconstruction.

Stronach, who announced last April she would be leaving politics before the next election, paid for the surgery in the U.S., reports the Star.

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Drill offshore now

The problem with this is that the reason billing is a bureaucratic nightmare is because of government policies, both directly through medicare and other unfunded mandates, and indirectly as through taxation.

A single payer system sounds wonderful, but show me an instance where a government program lead to less bureaucratizaion rather than more.

This is not to say that some sort of public health isn't desired. I believe it is. The issue though is that I feel the US government is incapable of designing such a program, and am sure that anything it DID try to do now would probably make things worse.

The main issue for debate is that medical care is one of unlimited demand, but with a limited resource. Something has to be done to limit demand. In the US we use money, overseas they use delay. Both ways have problems. Either way some sort of restriction would be required, and we have seen that the US government has problems with that.

The other issue is with the resource. Leaving aside for the moment that the US senate will never allow anything on a per-capita basis, what you would have is states like CA getting the shaft, but states like Iowa having too many clinics. But outside of that, look at the doctors. Health care requires highly specialized doctors. Though many doctors do become doctors because they want to help, the 4Ps also influence this decision. Standardized healthcare will drive many doctors out of the profession (in socialized medicine it has driven most out of the country (as Canada showed - 9K doctors in the US). The only reason socialized medicine in most countries hasn't collapsed yet is because they import doctors from India and Africa. However, with India and other nations standard of living rising, this well will soon run dry. That would need to be addressed, and there is no easy answer for that.

Also, US medicine is fairly efficient. The issue is that we spend far too much money on pre-mature babies and the last 3 months of life. Remove those two classes, and our system is actually as efficient as the best of them (who do exclude to a great degree). Should we get rid of those classes?

Finally, our current system allows research into drugs. Bitch all you want about the companies, but they do provide some really incredible products (which Canada then steals by threatening to revoke their patent protections, otherwise their system would be even worse). Do you really want to kill the golden goose?

I have not bother to respond, because there is nothing in your article to respond to. It doesn't mention how the program is to be administered, who will administer, how many people it will take to administer, or how much it will cost. Just like every politician, it only says it will be cheaper and better. Without proving any substance.

Besides which I have not yet found a doctor who has heard enough about this to support it. Granted I only know about 50 doctors, at the country clubs, and golf courses, so I must admit I don't know all of them.

This country has already bought enough pork, with Social Security, MediaCare, MedicAid, Food Stamps Section 8 Housing, Aid for Dependent Children, and free meal programs. I'm not buying any more without COMPLETE information. Massachusetts has already found their system to be much,much more expensive than projected. I doubt any thing different will be found with any of these other Socialist scams.

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If you want change stop electing "liberal: democrats and "radical" Republicans. Find and support true Conservatives; those who believe in fiscal responsibilities, individual accountability, and a smaller government, with less control of your daily life.

SOho,

I must say I am becoming disappointed in you. Somebody here at the forum touted you as a intelligent well read man.

Its apparent by your response that you have not read the Physicians for a National Health Program - Health Care is a Human Right Plan.

They plan to negotiate for drugs from drug companies. Not take them from drug companies.

Besides the US tax payer pays for a lot of R&D for all kinds of industries not the least of which is the drug companies. Then we just hand them over tax payer funded research and say here run with it make billions.

Do you need me to look you up a short history on how much tax payer money is spent on R&D with universities throughout this country that goes eventually to benefit Pharma companies Soho?

I'll tell you what Soho, since somebody said your a economic whiz, lets assume that is true. Do you think its a fiscally sound policy for the US tax payer to fund R&D in any sector and not be paid part of that back by the corporations that eventually make money on that tax payer funded research?

I'll take that answer before you read the proposal put forth by the Physicians For National Healthcare if you please. Because I am sure if you ever bothered to read the plan it would take you the better part of a hour, days if you wanted to look into the links they supply . Like the American Journal of Medicine and the research they have done and why they are backing this plan because it will work.

I really am disappointed Soho, I was hoping you were a whiz, we could use some brains around AWE. I have never met the first whiz though that speaks before they educate themselves on the subject.

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Real Christians Don't Support Preemptive War



Life is not about counting the number of breaths you take , life is about the moments that take your breath away.

Bull pucky, obviously you are lying teak and you haven't read the plan either. because it does give all those details along with links to the research to back them up.

My son is a orthopedic surgeon , my sister is a radiologist, Among my family I have four other doctors besides them. And a bevy of nurses , not to mention my daughter is a Pharmacist. If your going to have a heart attack you have a good chance of surviving it if you do it at one of my family reunions . And we have more dentists in my large family than I have ever bothered to count. All of the medical personnel in my family are backing this plan. With some reservations from my son who is a third year resident Ortho Doc and says he would like to make tons of money like the rest did before he takes a cut in pay. But he will live. And he will still make good money.

So teak read the plan,. follow the links to tons of research about this plan, then come back here and tell us what you think after you have read this plan.

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Real Christians Don't Support Preemptive War



Life is not about counting the number of breaths you take , life is about the moments that take your breath away.