If Christ Was God It Makes Him Less

Politicon · #21 (**permalink**) 06-30-2006, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lion_Of_Islam

Sorta makes sense.

What about the other Scripture.

If you can give me an example I would be glad to try to give you an answer.

Happiness · #22 (**permalink**) 06-30-2006, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lion_Of_Islam

Both the Quran and the Bible state that The Lord Is ONE and only ONE entity

"Say: He is God, the One and Only; God, the Eternal, Absolute; He begetteth not, nor is He begotten; And there is none like unto Him. (The Noble Quran, 112:1-4)"

"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one. (From the NIV Bible, Deuteronomy 6:4)"

"The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. (From the NIV Bible, Mark 12:29)"

You see how Jesus(pbuh) said OUR God. That includes Him if Im correct. That clearly shows you that Jesus(pbuh) was UNDER God, not Equal or the Part of the Same Entity.

The New Testament also states: ""Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good–except God alone." (From the NIV Bible, Mark 10:18)"

Somebody elses turn. Im the only One that has qouted Scripture.

The essense of the trinity doctrine is to expound on the nature of the existence, the role, and the relationship of the three parts of the trinity.

If you want to understand these 3 things, we must first agree on their existence: are they humans? corporeal? can you call them spirits? What is the nature of a spirit?

If we agree that they are not physical but corporeal, then the question is: What is the nature of this corporeal existence? Can you explain the form of existence? What are the rules of this existence? How do you define it? What are its limits? How does it work?

We know very little of this. All we do know is from Biblical scripture.

The First Epistle to the Corinthians was written by Paul while in Asia Minor (Turkey). It was a series of letters written to the newly developing church in Corinth, Greece. The intention was to guide and encourage them as they grew.

Quote:

1 Corinthians 8

1 Now concerning things offered to idols: We know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffs up, but love edifies. 2 And if anyone thinks that he knows anything, he knows nothing yet as he ought to know. 3 But if anyone loves God, this one is known by Him.

...

5 For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as there are many gods and many lords), 6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.

Here we see Paul's understanding of the role of Christ. He was clearly more than just a prophet according to Paul. "Jesus Christ, through whom are all things,". But where did he get this idea from? Here we have an idea- We look at the Gospel of John. John was an eyewitness to Jesus himself. He lived in the same time period, in the same area. As a follower of Jesus he had a direct relationship with him and heard what Jesus had to say directly:

Quote:

John 1

1 In the beginning was the Word, A)and the Word was with God, B)and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 C)All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.

6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 This man came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all through him might believe. 8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. 9 That was the true Light which gives light to every man coming into the world.
10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. 11 He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Its a long quote, but look at A) and B). "The Word was with, as well as was God." Now you know where the idea of the Trinity came from. When you see C), you will also recognise Paul's words from there, referring to the role of Christ.

If you go on to read, it is clear who John is referring to, who he calls the "Word".

If you are observant, you will notice that there is very little said about the third member of the trinity. But the Spirit too has a role to play in the world. I dont have the time to reference the appropriate passages right now, but if you are curious I will add them too later.

Let me know if you have any further doubts or questions.

Politicon · #23 (**permalink**) 06-30-2006, 10:36 PM

Nicely said!

Truth · #24 (**permalink**) 07-13-2006, 07:09 PM

[quote=BARK]This first. The holy trinity was laid down in the council of Nicea in 324 or 325,
No No No!!!! The Holy Trinity (the word Trinity is not found in Scripture anywhere) but the scriptural term for the Trinity is Godhead found in Colossians chapter 2 verse 9. "For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. Also: chapter 1 and verse 19 "For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell".There are over 300 references to the Godhead
throughout the Bible dating from creation which was 4000 years before Jesus to the time of Jesus. At the moment I post 2 per day on the Topic listed as the Absolute Deity of the Lord Jesus Christ...please read them.
It was never in question the fact of the Person of GOD being revealed in 3 distinct parts, Father, Son and Spirit in the scriptures. It was only later that this discussion took place because some who were not mainstrean/orthodox came in wanting to change Christian beliefs. So the Council of Nicea produced the Nicean Creed to counter the false.

As far as the spirit being an invention....really.
Genesis chapter 1 and verse 2 says "the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters". Note: NO invention of the Holy Spirit. Also: "The Lord said, my Spirit shall not always trive with man"
Genesis chapter 6 verse 3. Also see: "How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God" Hebrews chapterr 9 verse 14. Its really very clear.

They did fond it hard to believe that a man could be so great and not be some part of god.
Jesus asserted His Deity many times, the Jews crucified Him for making Himself equal with God...thus making Himself God. See: "The Jews answered him, saying, for a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God" John chapter 10 verse 33.

even still not pure enoguh for God to dip his stick in.
For a supposedly inteligent person, to use such a crude phrase in the context of speaking of a Holy God seems to me to show up your ignorance.
As for the rest of the rubbish you have written, I think what you are doing is copying thoughts from other sources....they are disjointed and mismatched and are a complete odd assortment of bits from here there and everywhere.
Just read your Bible and you wouldnt come out with this nonsense.

Truth · #25 (**permalink**) 07-13-2006, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lion_Of_Islam

I was a Christian before I was a Muslim. Thats why I believe Jesus(pbuh) is a Man because of the confusing nature of this "Holy Trinity" concept! I wasnt confused about it however...

You were never a Christain.....any more than you are now a muslim.

You are an angry African American....living in a white man's society.

You dont feel part of it, you dont want to be part of it and so you turn to a political islam that gives you a voice.

As far as your salvation is concerned you would do well to listen to those real believers in your family that are praying for you.

Now get real.....

Scoody Boo · #26 (**permalink**) 07-13-2006, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lion_Of_Islam

Thats why I believe Jesus(pbuh) is a Man because of the confusing nature of this "Holy Trinity" concept! I wasnt confused about it however...

I am confused by Islam. The whole "Religion of Peace " does not fly when Allah is being praised as heads are sawed off. I don't get it.

Truth · #27 (**permalink**) 07-13-2006, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scoody Boo

I am confused by Islam. The whole "Religion of Peace " does not fly when Allah is being praised as heads are sawed off. I don't get it.

Its true nature. The True Nature of Islam....What is performed by a minority in violence and hatred of the infidels (Jews and Christians) is committed in the hearts and minds of millions more who really agree with these evil people.

I was in Dhaka Bangladesh on September the 11th I saw the crowds cheering on the streets as the Towers came down. Men, women and children....

Brian Thomas · #28 (**permalink**) 08-09-2006, 11:01 AM

I am sorry there is no god. If there was such a person as Jesus Christ then he would have been a normal man like you and me. When you die that is it. You don't get taken up to heaven you just decompose.

Areyouforreal · #29 (**permalink**) 08-09-2006, 11:30 AM

Prove to me that there is no God. If you believe in evolution ar the Big Bang theory exlpain to me where the particles (molecules and atoms) first came from. Science has proven that you can not make something out of nothing.