RDNOR want me?

dirtylaundry · #11 (**permalink**) 07-03-2006, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Politicon

Despite the Koran referring to Christians as People of the Book, I must disagree. Jesus' message was completely incompatible with that of Muhammad. Jesus claimed to be God. Jesus taught salvation by faith, and not by any form of works. Jesus taught the sending of the Holy Spirit. I do no see how these can be reconciled with Islam in any form.

And YOU'D know better than anyone would'nt you?

dirtylaundry · #12 (**permalink**) 07-03-2006, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BARK

.
according to some translations. and traditions. How many books does jesus appear in? Everyone had something to say about him. Some authors spun him to be god. Some authors spun him to be a prophet. Does that detract from his teachings or does that simply give you fundementalists something to fight over. Do these intrpretations enhance our understanding or add to our divisions... Sorry just floating off.

Dont be sorry,you hit the nail on the head!

BARK · #13 (**permalink**) 07-03-2006, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Spun him to be God? That was a belief from the very beginning of the Church in the first century. The only reason it was even dealt with at the Council of Nicea in 325 was that they needed to deal with heresy of the time. They needed an official Church statement on it. The belief itself is original to Christianity itself though.

Exactly THE CHURCH. don't forget THE MOSQUE, or THE SYNAGOGUE. The church is not the only game in town no matter what THE CHURCH says.

Politicon · #14 (**permalink**) 07-03-2006, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BARK

Exactly THE CHURCH. don't forget THE MOSQUE, or THE SYNAGOGUE. The church is not the only game in town no matter what THE CHURCH says.

I fail to see how mosque or synagogues have anything to do with the original teaching of the Church, which I was trying to point out.

Politicon · #15 (**permalink**) 07-03-2006, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirtylaundry

Dont be sorry,you hit the nail on the head!

I fail to see how many different translations of the Bible means a thing. We have the original Greek/Hebrew text from which all these translations were made. I fail to see why you are taking a personal vendetta against me. Would I know that better than most? Not a chance, I’m no minister. At the same time, I do know the basic tenants of faith. Would Muslims ever agree that Allah is Triune? Would Muslims ever agree that Jesus was God? Legalistically there are some things that are the same, but legalism is not the heart of the religions now is it. It is the heart that counts. Please, show my one-ounce of evidence showing me how these two religions can go together. You fail to give me anything to work with and instead turn to attacking me personally. In all honesty, debate me if I’m so wrong.

BARK · #16 (**permalink**) 07-03-2006, 04:00 PM

Quote:

I fail to see how mosque or synagogues have anything to do with the original teaching of the Church, which I was trying to point out.

Exactly which is why people can justify Jews on Arab land.

Quote:

I fail to see how many different translations of the Bible means a thing.

Take a phrase like "Wrap your head in newspaper and grow up" In spanish that means someting in english it is just silly. Take any phrase and translate it. The message is easy to lose. What means someting to one language is different in another. The Sapir Whorf Hypothesis says that language determines what you learn. Where I know maybe four or five words for rice; rice farmers in asia know hundreds. This influences the way they see life. Much of their colloqiualisms are in reference to rice. How much water does that hold to me. How much water does "How much water does it hold to me" hold to them. Some languages are more emotive others are more scientific. Translations mean the world to meaning.

BARK · #17 (**permalink**) 07-03-2006, 04:04 PM

Quote:

I fail to see why you are taking a personal vendetta against me.

not personal. Arguement.

Quote:

Legalistically there are some things that are the same, but legalism is not the heart of the religions now is it.

"It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle" found in both the Qur'an and the Bible. Legalistically no really they are much the same. The teachings of Abraham, Moses, Jesus, And so many others they come from the same people.

Quote:

show my one-ounce of evidence showing me how these two religions can go together.

this I will come back to. I have to have a Qur'an and bible in front of me at the same time.

Politicon · #18 (**permalink**) 07-03-2006, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BARK

not personal. Arguement. "It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle" found in both the Qur'an and the Bible. Legalistically no really they are much the same. The teachings of Abraham, Moses, Jesus, And so many others they come from the same people. this I will come back to. I have to have a Qur'an and bible in front of me at the same time.

Oops, I didn't mean to put that personal vendetta thing in your post. That was directed at someone else. Sorry about that. When it comes to translations, there have been many well educated scholars who have tried to perfect the translation as close as possible. Will it be perfect? No, things pop out to me a lot different when I read the Bible in German. The words add emphasis. At the same time though the overall meaning is the same and since we have the original language I find it hard to believe that anything could be messed up to a meaningful extent. Legalistically, the Bible and the Koran are the same. Many of the same values are there. At the same time, the means of salvation are different so I can' hold the religions to be compatible.

BARK · #19 (**permalink**) 07-04-2006, 01:15 AM

Quote:

Oops, I didn't mean to put that personal vendetta thing in your post. That was directed at someone else. Sorry about that. When it comes to translations, there have been many well educated scholars who have tried to perfect the translation as close as possible. Will it be perfect? No, things pop out to me a lot different when I read the Bible in German. The words add emphasis. At the same time though the overall meaning is the same and since we have the original language I find it hard to believe that anything could be messed up to a meaningful extent. Legalistically, the Bible and the Koran are the same. Many of the same values are there. At the same time, the means of salvation are different so I can' hold the religions to be compatible.

True, but understand what you just said. The words are different, but the message is the same. Isn't it always simple symantics that we argue over here. Right, one guy posts a verse from one translation, and then another will post another translation. The meaning is always different. The Verse is the same, but the message is always different. Odd huh? Is this not the reason we fight? Seriously we fight because of different interpretations of the same text.

Politicon · #20 (**permalink**) 07-04-2006, 01:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BARK

True, but understand what you just said. The words are different, but the message is the same. Isn't it always simple symantics that we argue over here. Right, one guy posts a verse from one translation, and then another will post another translation. The meaning is always different. The Verse is the same, but the message is always different. Odd huh? Is this not the reason we fight? Seriously we fight because of different interpretations of the same text.

It's the interpretation that counts! Then again, it's hard to apply specific religious versus to politics. I hate it when people try to figure out if Jesus would vote Republican or Democrat.