IHNR vs. DOM1 "Was this Country Founded as a Christian Nation"

Dom1 · #**391** (**permalink**) 04-15-2008, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IHNR

Ok... lets further examine Nicea in one of your quotes Soho about the fact that "I is so EASY to become a Christian" You holy-rollers can test me but I grew up Baptist and one of things that never made sense to me was the ease of salvation... why easy... you could lay on your deathbed (Constantine who I believe NEVER gave up his pagan belief) and on his bed he was either baptized to "cover all bets" or it was done during a period of unconsciousness so he lived an unchristian life and at the end asked for salvation by definition gets the keys to doors of heaven. BULLSHIT...

I believe it's so easy to become a Christian because if you at the formation of religions it mirrors the formations of gangs... i.e. belonging, to be given answers and exception and my point to all and at the end of the day... a revenue generator for the "Church." Ever wonder why the ONLY mortal sin is suicide... in my opinion, suicide means a lost revenue stream to the over all church.

Any comments from the gallery...

By the Nicea process... total assholes can live their lives as unchristian as they want and complete their asshole lives (Dom and Nathan for example) and then on their death bed... receive the "last rites” How much the last rights cost Nathan?

The thing that really pisses me off is that they use a completely forward thinker like Jesus who an obvious pacifist and anti-capitalist and yet the right uses this man to maintain the exact movements that Jesus would object to on site.

Do you think Jesus Ok’ed the invasion of Iraq as bush claims? BULLSHIT and its weak-minded people who fall for this shit and put more assholes in office.

Wrong Nazi. You leave out the necessity for good works. Maybe you rattlesnake handling Baptists didn't think that good works were an integral part of salvation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by IHNR

Dom... You asked for proof that you lost the challenge. The title of the thread is IHNR vs. DOM1 "Was this Country Founded as a Christian Nation"

You AGREED with me that this country was not founded as a Christian nation, why? Because you had zero data to compete with that fact.

You want to change the challenge and I'm not letting you do it because if that is what you want then challenge me.

Until then, accept your loss and if you want to challenge me then DO IT... if not then bugger off.

What loss?

Look stupid, if I "challenged" you to prove to me that there was a man in the moon and you said that there wasn't then I could claim some sort of 'victory' according to your logic. I am sure you don't understand this, because you are a dumbass, but everyone else sure as hell can see the problem with your argument.

Dom1 · #**392** (**permalink**) 04-15-2008, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dom1

The Unites States was not founded as a Christian nation but was influenced a great deal by Christianity and Christianity was recognized by the Founders as something important for this nation - both in its role prior to and after independence.

By virtue of Nazi's silence, we can all assume that he agrees 100% with what I said here. After all, he did say that he would respond to anything that he didn't agree with.

wvpeach · #**393** (**permalink**) 04-15-2008, 12:57 PM

Soho.

Christ preached and taught complete pacifism for his followers. Resist not evil, turn the other cheek, forgive 7X 70 times.

Christ said he came to bring division over religious dogma . The same crap that is going on over this war. The so called evangelical right wing of the Republican party cheered while Bush bombed and killed innocent people in iraq. While those of us who actually read the bible and follow the teachings of Christ stood back and said this is wrong. That is the kind of division Christ said he came to bring SOHO.

I challenge anybody to find any place in Christs teachings where he taught differently for his followers. . Christ was not called the prince of peace for nothing.

There is a big difference between starting a war and defending ones self when attacked. Obviously only people living in a fantasy land can say iraq attacked us. .......................There is also a big difference between whipping somebody for doing wrong and dropping bombs on their heads. Jesus was the punish the wrong doing kind , he wasn't the killing kind.

As for death bed confessions , people seem to forget the bible says faith without works is dead. So its doubtful that death bed confessions do them any good as if a person leads a totally selfish life, as many do. Worrying only about themselves and perhaps their closest family and saying everybody else is on their own , they will probably find they are one of those people Christ will say the following to.

Matthew 25:31-46 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

I know you don't care to read scriptures from the bible SOHO. But perhaps somebody else will read the scriptures above and take note. You cannot say on your death bed I wish I had fed and cared for the sick and poor in the world . You cannot say on your death bed I should have helped a father less child and expect it to count for much.

The whole doctrine of saved by just confessing and calling on the name of the Lord is a crock like the trinity is. Scripture makes it perfectly clear we will be judged by our works here on earth........................By our fruit.....................Christ will say to some of us "" well done thou good and profitable servant"' ............................Some will be turned away.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TakuanSoho

I am not a "Holy Roller", I am agnostic. I do study history though, and some theology for fun. Religion is an interesting window into how people think.

As for Constantine, it seems more probable that he was Christian. Though he did not convert until his death, he gave FAR more money and support to the Christians than to the Pagans. This is not the action of a true Pagan.

Not sure I understand your comparison of Nicene to deathbed conversions. Such conversions are only valid if the person truly repents. Don't you think that God would be able to see through someone who is lying? And if the person truly repents, and God has no issue with it, why do you.

As for Jesus being a pacifist. Really, the man who scourged the temple and preached that he had come to divide and not unify?

wvpeach · #**394** (**permalink**) 04-15-2008, 01:16 PM

You really should start to read the bible Nathan .

Your faith without works is dead.

James 2:14-26 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Not that I like you much Nathan but I wouldn't want you to end up surprised because you obviously never read the bible . So I'll give you a few scriptures here that you really should read. Just a few its not like you have to read the whole bible, but you should read these.

Confessing that Christ is Lord is just the beginning . True followers of Christ's have work to do after and the bible is full of Christs teaching that we will be judged for our works.

I already gave SOHO some scriptures , you know the ones ( or maybe you don't) the ones about not doing for the least among us is the same as passing Christ by laying in a ditch and doing nothing. Christ says he will send such people to ever lasting punishment.

Since I already gave Soho those scriptures which you can read let me give you different ones about the fruit of our works we will be judged by Nathan. Hate to shake up that whole idea you got going that your safe even if you sit at home a selfish mess. But its for your own good.

Matthew 25:14-30 For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.
15 And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey.
16 Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made them other five talents.
17 And likewise he that had received two, he also gained other two.
18 But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord's money.
19 After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them.
20 And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more.
21 His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
22 He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them.
23 His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
24 Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:
25 And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.
26 His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:
27 Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.
28 Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.
29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.
30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal. .......................Note these words that precede are in red because they are the words of our Lord Jesus Christ.

May God whose name we call YHWH, The ONE true God, bless the reading of the above scriptures to those who have eyes to see and ears to understand , we ask this in the name of the son Jesus Christ. Amen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nathanbforrest45

The problem with deathbed conversions is that we never know when we will find ourselves on that deathbed or what condition we will be in when we do. When I had my motorcycle accident I was extremely lucky. I could have as easily broken my neck or rammed into an obstruction on the side of the road killing me. I can assure you I had no time to make a deathbed conversion from the time the accident started until the time I struck the road. One should not count on a "deathbed" conversion

As for the "ease" of salvation, the Bible tells us we need only confess our sins and be repentent of them and to accept Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior to gain salvation. The entire purpose of Christ dying on the cross was to absolve us of our sins, to accept the punishment for us so we would not have to.

Much like a human father who forgives his child's failings so does God our Father forgive ours. However, we must truly be repentent of them and God will know when we are .

I gain great comfort in that knowledge.

And to my knowledge, the Last Rites cost you nothing except what your family wishes to give if anything.

wvpeach · #**395** (**permalink**) 04-15-2008, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nathanbforrest45

Also, could you show passages signifying that Christ was anti capitalist? Can you show biblical passages that signify Christ perfered any economic system to any other?

He is a joke and his lack of bible reading is becoming apparent, isn't it Crowley? .

Okay Nathan I am beginning to wonder if you have ever turned the pages of a bible at all?

It's not that Christ is anti capitalist. Its that Christ will judge us for how we treat the least among us.

And I know you have seen these scriptures from that stupid thread you started where you tried to say Christ would be anti welfare, which is obviously a lie . Christ said to take care of those in need.

I have already given you Matthew 25 30-46 where Christ talks about caring for those in need, the least among us he calls them.

But let me give you a model of what the new testament church ran like.

Acts 4: 32-37 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.
33 And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.
34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,
35 And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.
36 And Joses, who by the apostles was surnamed Barnabas, (which is, being interpreted, The son of consolation,) a Levite, and of the country of Cyprus,
37 Having land, sold it, and brought the money, and laid it at the apostles' feet.

And

A rich young ruler came to Jesus asking, "Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?" (Luke 18:18). Jesus told him to keep the commandments (see Luke 18:1920; see also Matthew 19:1619; Mark 10:1719).

The young man said that he had obeyed the commandments since he was a child, but Jesus looked upon him with love and told him of one more commandment he needed to keep (see Matthew 19:20; Mark 10:20; Luke 18:21). "Go and sell that thou hast," Jesus said, "and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me" (Matthew 19:21; see also Mark 10:21; Luke 18:22).

When the young man heard this, he went away sorrowful because he was very rich and did not want to give away all his costly possessions (see Matthew 19:22; Mark 10:22; Luke 18:23). Then Jesus said, "How hard is it for them that trust in riches to enter into the kingdom of God!" (Mark 10:24; see also Matthew 19:2324; Mark 10:23, Mark 10:25; Luke 18:2425).

Do you need some more scriptures Nathan that tell us how people who trust in riches will not be entering the Kingdom of God? Because if you do the bible is full of them.

wvpeach · #**396** (**permalink**) 04-15-2008, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wvpeach

I am still waiting for you to tell me how you explain away all the printing errors that have happened to the bible BD?

I am still waiting on you to come up with even one scripture that says God is protecting the bible BD?

I am waiting BD

OH BD, you who does not have the truth in you, I am still waiting for you to answer this question.

I am waiting Bluedog?

What is your problem can't you answer a simple question BD?

nathanbforrest45 · #**397** (**permalink**) 04-15-2008, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wvpeach

He is a joke and his lack of bible reading is becoming apparent, isn't it Crowley? .

Okay Nathan I am beginning to wonder if you have ever turned the pages of a bible at all?

It's not that Christ is anti capitalist. Its that Christ will judge us for how we treat the least among us.

And I know you have seen these scriptures from that stupid thread you started where you tried to say Christ would be anti welfare, which is obviously a lie . Christ said to take care of those in need.

I have already given you Matthew 25 30-46 where Christ talks about caring for those in need, the least among us he calls them.

But let me give you a model of what the new testament church ran like.

Acts 4: 32-37 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.
33 And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.
34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,
35 And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.
36 And Joses, who by the apostles was surnamed Barnabas, (which is, being interpreted, The son of consolation,) a Levite, and of the country of Cyprus,
37 Having land, sold it, and brought the money, and laid it at the apostles' feet.

And

A rich young ruler came to Jesus asking, "Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?" (Luke 18:18). Jesus told him to keep the commandments (see Luke 18:1920; see also Matthew 19:1619; Mark 10:1719).

The young man said that he had obeyed the commandments since he was a child, but Jesus looked upon him with love and told him of one more commandment he needed to keep (see Matthew 19:20; Mark 10:20; Luke 18:21). "Go and sell that thou hast," Jesus said, "and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me" (Matthew 19:21; see also Mark 10:21; Luke 18:22).

When the young man heard this, he went away sorrowful because he was very rich and did not want to give away all his costly possessions (see Matthew 19:22; Mark 10:22; Luke 18:23). Then Jesus said, "How hard is it for them that trust in riches to enter into the kingdom of God!" (Mark 10:24; see also Matthew 19:2324; Mark 10:23, Mark 10:25; Luke 18:2425).

Do you need some more scriptures Nathan that tell us how people who trust in riches will not be entering the Kingdom of God? Because if you do the bible is full of them.

Christ is neither anti nor pro capitalist. Even you claim that to be the case. You are assuming from your communistic worldview that anyone who believes in capitalism is automatically a sinner. That is not biblical. I can be a capitalist and use that money for good. I understand that you are a communist and therefore cannot understand that but more has been done by the so called "robber barons" than by any socialistic enterprise. Eventually, all forms of socialism will collapse under thier own incompetence.

For someone who claims to be a forgiving Christian you are certainly an arrogant haughty, prideful bitch aren't you?

God does not tell us we must be poor to enter the kingdom of heaven, he tells us we must be poor in spirit. What makes you think that I don't feed the poor or help the widows and orphans? Your arrogant belief that only a communist can do so, only someone who steals from the producers? How does that fit into God's plan?, stealing from the rich? Where in your insane bible does it tell you to steal from the producers and give it away?

That passage you quote only signifies that you cannot worship money more than God, not that if you have money you are doomed.

Pride will get you woman and you are full of pride that you and only you know the answer.

nathanbforrest45 · #**398** (**permalink**) 04-15-2008, 01:58 PM

DA VINCI CODE*
*
Written across the wall of the cave was a unique find and the writings were said to be at least three thousand years old

**The piece of stone was removed, brought to the museum, and archaeologists from around the world came to study the ancient symbols.

They held a huge meeting after months of conferences to discuss the meaning of the markings.
*
The President of the society pointed to first drawing and said: 'This is a
woman. We can see these people held women in high esteem. You can also tell they were intelligent, as the next symbol is a donkey,
so they were smart enough to have animals help them till the soil.
The next drawing is a shovel, which means they had tools to help them.' *

Even further proof of their high intelligence is the fish which means that
if a famine hit the earth and food didn't grow, they seek food from the sea.
The last symbol appears to be the Star of David which means they were
evidently Hebrews. *

*The audience applauded enthusiastically.

*Then a little old Jewish man stood up in the back of the room and said,
'Idiots, Hebrew is read from right to left......
It says: 'Holy Mackerel, Dig The Ass On That Chick*

I think we have found the reason for Peach's obvious errors in Biblical Text

wvpeach · #**399** (**permalink**) 04-15-2008, 05:14 PM

You missed the whole point of my posts to you Nathan , not that it surprises me that you did.

My posts were in reply to your obvious fantasy that all we need do is to confess our sins , be repentant and accept Christ as Lord and we're saved.

You obviously missed all the scriptures Nathan that tell about the fact we will be judged for our works .................Our fruit.....................How we treat others.

You obviously missed the fact that Christ said many on their judgment day will say but Lord we were good people we always went to church, why are we not found worthy of eternal life? And Christ will say to them because when you refused to help the least among us you failed to help me.

But the good news is now you know this Nathan. So now you will have no excuse when you stand before the Lord on your judgment day. You can tell him peach told me already"" faith without works is dead."""

Well now

Quote:

Originally Posted by nathanbforrest45

As for the "ease" of salvation, the Bible tells us we need only confess our sins and be repentent of them and to accept Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior to gain salvation. The entire purpose of Christ dying on the cross was to absolve us of our sins, to accept the punishment for us so we would not have to.

.

wvpeach · #**400** (**permalink**) 04-15-2008, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wvpeach

OH BD, you who does not have the truth in you, I am still waiting for you to answer this question.

I am waiting Bluedog?

What is your problem can't you answer a simple question BD?

I am still waiting for you to tell me how you explain away all the printing errors that have happened to the bible BD?

I am still waiting on you to come up with even one scripture that says God is protecting the bible BD?

I'm waiting BD