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I guess you wont huh boy cunt ?

Still living with your buck tooth trailer trash cunt mother, and way too confy in the basement huh ? No job and no prospects, like the rest of the neo nazi right wing base
Invite the boy next door over when Mom is at the bingo parlor huh, for a little anal ?

Either sign up boy cunt, or admit what a pussy you are. Not that you need to, everyone knows

well...are you going to enlist...cunt ?

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A brilliant mind and a superior intellect, no matter WHAT screen name I am logged in under

Some people say all Republicans are inbred ignorant southern hicks,,,,NOT TRUE…Some live in Indiana

It's quite simple really, I'm smarter then you

Okay, deal.

Death Penalty. Places that have more executions also seem to *need* more executions. What happens to deterence theory in the face of this numerical fact?

Grey welcome.....lets begin with you showing these "numerical facts"--what data are you pulling from??

But lets say you have some sort of factual data that represents your statement....the info may still be meaningless in regards to the argument your trying to convey--unless you have data that shows a states (pre/post death penalty) crime and murder rates.

The deterent is only as effective as the risk is severe and as the punishment is harsh

How can you disagree......if you were fined $1,000 for speeding.......would you still speed?

If you had your hand chopped off for stealing....would the thought of theft even cross your mind?

While Im not promoting those punishments...I will say....there is no punishment more severe then death......anyone that murders another human being deserves nothing less than what they have dealt out.

Speed up death row...fewer mouths sucking on the democrat provided social tit (ie. my wallet)

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AWE Super Referee 1) Similar to Democrat Super Delegates, my powers and my opinions are ten times more important than those of standard commoner referees... peasants 2) So powerful....the Refereed Debate category cannot contain me 3) I make my own rules...which you will follow 4) Get out of line and I will toss you in with the Duck

Badmutha;399693]Grey welcome.....lets begin with you showing these "numerical facts"--what data are you pulling from??

I can give a few examples that are easy enough to verify for yourself, but if you feel it insufficient for this informal discussion, I can gladly find and post links as needed tomorrow when I have more time.

Here are the few:

1. Basic one. There are many, many countries in the world in which there is no death penalty and a way lower murder rate. While obviously there are going to be other factors to take into account, it becomes very difficult to make a case for the death penalty being preventative in a place where the number of murders is small enough that it ceases to be possible to give a statistically significant number that are/are not being prevented.

2. No one commits a crime with the punishment in mind. People still commit murders in death penalty countries such are ours, and it's doubtful that they do so with the potential legal precedings in mind.

3. It was once said by a conservative optimist (I can find out who, I read it in Freakonomics, interesting book) that each execution may prevent as many as 9 murders by being a deterent. Mathamatically, if that were true, every person in Texas would have already been detered from committing murders based on who was executed in their life span, yet they still, obviously, commit them just the same.



How can you disagree......if you were fined $1,000 for speeding.......would you still speed?

Obviously not. But no one commits murder with the same carelessness that they speed for reasons that have nothing to do with potential consequence. The reward in speeding is pretty small compared to say, bumping someone off for insurance, and that's to say nothing of emotional killings done in the heat of the moment.

If you had your hand chopped off for stealing....would the thought of theft even cross your mind?

Ahhhh if it's a million dollar item and I might not get caught, yeah, I might try it. Also see the above in your previous example.

anyone that murders another human being deserves nothing less than what they have dealt out.

Even if that were true, which is in itself debatable, it still doesn't solve the problem of wrongful executions. What percentage of misfires are we uncomfortable with as a people when it comes to killing the wrongly convicted? As a big fat leftie, I'm obviously not comfortable with even a 0.1 percent margain of error when it comes to lethally injecting innocent people, but sure you must be able to provide a different number. Perhaps if half the executions were wrong? 75%?

Name your price, muchacho.

Basic apples and oranges--your right about one thing--other factors have to be taken into account.

BS Grey--the majority of crimes are not crimes of passion or reactionary crimes--they are thought out--planned--and carried out with the full knowledge of the punishment that lies in wait.

9 murders??---is that a day--per year??? At the risk of sounding liberalish...I wonder how those 9 people would feel about your argument


Hence the punishment for murder is more severe than the punishment for speeding

Which again is why the punishment for grand theft is more severe than the punishment for petty theft.

I just dont understand the premis of the argument your trying to convey??

--Are you trying to say punishment does not deter crime??
--Are you merely against executions all together??---and is it because of the .01% of wrongly convicted criminals.....if thats the case....I wonder if you have a problem with Life senteces.

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AWE Super Referee 1) Similar to Democrat Super Delegates, my powers and my opinions are ten times more important than those of standard commoner referees... peasants 2) So powerful....the Refereed Debate category cannot contain me 3) I make my own rules...which you will follow 4) Get out of line and I will toss you in with the Duck

=Badmutha;403262]Basic apples and oranges--your right about one thing--other factors have to be taken into account.

Sure, but that would sort of mean you're suggesting that the US is a failure in every OTHER regard EXCEPT the death penalty. That is atypical for a conservative argument...



BS Grey--the majority of crimes are not crimes of passion or reactionary crimes--they are thought out--planned--and carried out with the full knowledge of the punishment that lies in wait.

A. Why would it matter what the majority are? Even if it's just a handful of all murders, they are still murders that could never be deterred.


9 murders??---is that a day--per year??? At the risk of sounding liberalish...I wonder how those 9 people would feel about your argument

You're right, I misquoted the gentleman. It's *murderers* i.e. nine people who will never commit a murder EVER based on their fear of the death penalty.


--Are you trying to say punishment does not deter crime??

Of course not, but it is only effective to a point. Even in countries with horrid, tyranous rule and unforgiving laws, murders still occur. Plus, as a further elaboriation, there is so much more we could be doing in the way of crime prevention and rehabillitation. The death penalty is LAZY. It's throwing up our hands and accepting a problem without resistance.

Frankly, lying down and taking it is something I do NOT associate with conservatives, and I admire them for that. So why lie down here?

--Are you merely against executions all together??---and is it because of the .01% of wrongly convicted criminals.....if thats the case....I wonder if you have a problem with Life senteces.[/quote]

Of course I have no problem with life sentances. In cases when we've found the wrongly accused who have been sentanced to life, we've let them GO, even compensated them on occaison. That's fair. It's completely acceptable, and it gives them time and wisdom to do what they can to make ammends. Even if only 0.1 percent are innocent, are you suggesting so small a percentage is redeemable?

Looks like "Any(and every) Liberal out there" is handing sadmutha his ass huh ?
No surprise there.

Nice to see i am not the only one who can humiliate and own this sap on a regular basis

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Argue with some..IGNORE the stupid

Yeah it hurts, you have been fucked by an Elephant !

"Happamia, sanoi kettu pihlajanmarjoista kun ei niihin yltänyt" ("Sour, said the fox about rowan berries, being unable to reach them"

LMFAO!

No kidding.

*sniffs*

I miss him so.