Then wouldn't the answer be the same for Israel and any other nation as well.

__________________
People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vp92vkXcC0w

EXCUSE me? Baiting? You act as though I am a partner to the OP! I just was asking why, if the Conservatives are SO intelligent, and so much more upstanding a group, that they need to respond with sarcasm (the tool of a weak mind) and derrision. It seems to me that since it is a rather harsh OP, that you'd be able to actually counter with something concrete, instead of ignorance.

And I agree that a lot of people have missed the inner points of the article. On the surface, it seems ridiculous. But as I was told by Eternal in another thread, I think, you need to show people how ridiculous things can sound for them to hear how ridiculous their own views are.

See Princess now he is trying to bait you. I actually have enjoyed the debates on this and other threads. Yes at time I may be a bit sarcastic but that is just who I am and Sometimes sarcasm is needed to get the point across

__________________
People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vp92vkXcC0w

Make no mistake, I understand the intention of the original post, of whose points are down right laughable at times. However, if this was meant to be constructive the undertones would have looked dramatically different. This is just a collection of finger pointing.

More often than not, 'what if' questions fail to produce anything but regret and hate. However, sometimes this question does bring about a change of heart, a cathartic self-examination of sorts. However, 'what if Israel never existed' followed by a list of negative effects they supposedly have brought about, somehow fails to bring about that constructive realism of which you speak.

As for this, these situations are bad examples to compare as they are radically different. I won't refute, nor will anybody in their right mind, the fact that natives from the new americas and the middle east have encountered great injustice. But again, the two situations are entirely unique. Also, I think Princess Foamy may be starting a thread concerning the misconduct of native americans.

__________________
He who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man.
Dr. Samuel Johnson

Eternal you make some logical points. My response to Rastas post is that he is demonstrating how one injustice goes on for years. Really in this horrific conflict I am neutal in that I think both sides have had horrible human rights injustices and acts of violence from each side. One side might be a uniformed formal military person with a high technology weapon and the other side might be a 16 year old with a grenade but both are fighting for the same thing with the emotion being protection of what they see as their homeland.Both sides when fighting cause civilian destruction and death.

I certainly do not have a solution or answer to this but I think that all do need to consider that an injustice was done to the Arabs. We all know of the horrible injustice by Nazi Germany to the Jews. Well now the lines were drawn in 1948 and I do not have an answer but I do think America needs to consider both sides and why the Arabs feel violated by Israel and Americas one sided approach to the conflict.

Rasta has been one of the few posters to look long and hard at both sides. I thought his one stategy of possibly a 3 mile buffer zone was at least an attempt to solve the problem. It seems our governments involvement generally escalates the violence and hatred.

So what is your answer? Do you believe we should just take one side and blow up the other. Do you think the Arabs have a valid issue? My other question is this: If Israel was relocated in the continental United States with an equal piece of real estate given to them by our government and this brought about peace in the mideast would Americans rise to the sacrifice? This would be a dramatic and traumatic solution but if it brought forth an end to this could we rise to the occaision.I do not think anyone has an answer or solution but I would like to hear if someone does.

Just over 50 years ago we drew lines and seized other countries land so maybe those backing israel should at least consider the possibility of donating OUR land as oppsosed to someone elses. My point on bringing up the issue of our land once belonging to another group of people slaughtered and taken was to make a point. We have an enormous and great country with a powerful military. I think we can do better in solving this conflict. I think more than hate rhetoric and threats of bombs possibly knowing the people and why they fight will enable us to come to a solution.

The UN did not create Israel the just gave them back what was theirs to begin with. Who do you think built Jerusalem.
I also like the Idea of a buffer zone patroled by an international police force.

Here is what is going to happen
There will be a document of peace for the middle east. Israel will withdrawl from Gaza and the West Bank. They will share the temple mount as well.
Peace will not last long though and then all nations (minus America hopefully) will come against Israel with military might and there will be a war.

__________________
People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vp92vkXcC0w

Yes Rastas suggestion of a buffer zone was good. However again I make the point if you use the reasoning that Israel was given the land seized from the Arabs because they occupied a thousand years earlier than should all lands be returned to their occupants from 1000 years earlier?

I am not stating this as my opinion on what I think should happen just trying to stimulate thought that the Arabs do have a valid argument as do the Jews. What if a radical Indian group started insisting that an acre land that is now a Walmart is theirs because it was 300 years before and their ancestors had lived there for thousands of years and their relatives were buried there. That is the Israel side of the dispute.

Really this conflict is so complex, the history so detailed to simply pick a side as one would in a sporting match and only listen to the tragedy of that one side is not seeking the truth.

I think we can all agree this is not a simple confict with a direct solution and the region was set up for the war that is happening.

Hi PrincASS,

Yes! You! Baiting!
bait/ something used to temp, or entice. 1a harass or annoy ( a person ) b torment 2 to entice a prey.
The only problem, PrincASS, is that you are NEVER smarter than the prey

What we did to the Native Americans was wrong and yes we should give them back their land but that is not going to happen.

__________________
People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vp92vkXcC0w

As I told BARK in another thread, there will be no answer that is acceptable by either side unless they understand each other. Empathy, however, is not usually a virtue of a warring opposition. What I'm trying to say is that before long-term peace can be seen, both sides must forgive each others past. Realistic, no probably not...but this is what needs to happen.


This is an issue with many sides, 'blowing up' one side will only bring another to the forefront. Not to mention the moral dilemma involved in such an act. Yes, I do believe Arabs have a valid issue. As does everyone involved.

This is not a viable or realistic option. This plan has less to do with American sacrifice than it does Israeli. At this point it is not about creating a place where Israelis can live peacefully, its about where they want to live...and for many, that is not inside the continental U.S. I am all for the United States providing sactuary, but will this really stop people's desire to eradicate them? That is to say, is it really entirely about the land they occupy.?

Lastly, I think it is important for us to understand the situation and the people. But what benefit is that to them? They are the ones that will have to agree on terms placed on their people.

__________________
He who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man.
Dr. Samuel Johnson