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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 07-19-2006, 06:48 PM
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Then why even scoff at this article?? Just say that, and don't belittle yourself by stooping to name calling and generalized slandering. It's sad.

ETA - that's directed at the responders as a whole, not the previous poster
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Old 07-19-2006, 07:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Princess Foamy
Why the absolute sarcasm? I'm not saying I agree that things would be hunky-dory with the world without Israel, BUT - how about you all who are being merely derrisive give us all reasons that things might be WORSE if Israel hadn't been formed?.
Why sarcasm, well...because sometimes people need to be told to eat their babies to realize how ridiculous they sound. Hateful trash, such as the original post, does not deserve to be entertained in the realm of debate.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Princess Foamy
And let me say this one last thing - tell me how it's always the MUSLIMS at fault?? There are plenty of other people in many other religions killing, maiming, and terrorizing others for similar reasons.
I can't seem to find where I faulted muslims. Also if you want to speak out about the sins of the colonial days, start a new thread. But I can't imagine anybody refuting the facts regarding that topic.
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old 07-19-2006, 08:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eternal Footman
Why sarcasm, well...because sometimes people need to be told to eat their babies to realize how ridiculous they sound. Hateful trash, such as the original post, does not deserve to be entertained in the realm of debate.

I can't seem to find where I faulted muslims. Also if you want to speak out about the sins of the colonial days, start a new thread. But I can't imagine anybody refuting the facts regarding that topic.
Come on Eternal. Here we have a abstract thread, that the Liberals look upon as reality. Throw in a little baiting by the Princess, and by gosh you are just not playing. If the Left is going to go to all the trouble of creating a fantasy world you can have the common courtesy of playing along. Like children it does sadden them so when you burst their balloon with facts, and reality.
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Old 07-19-2006, 08:09 PM
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"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one"
Apparently not for Liberals
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Old 07-19-2006, 08:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eternal Footman
All great points, this is a terrific piece. What really needs to happen now, is the U.S. turn their backs on Israel. No more weapons, no more money, no more military support. This will in turn give the militant warriors in Iran, Syria, Lebanon, etc. the green light to attack with greatly reduced conflict against them. At this point we will tighten the noose on Israel, force the Zionists to leave or be destroyed...and thus returning the land to its rightful heir.

rightfull air huh. Who would that be. Last time i checked the jewish people laid claimed to that land for thousands of years. There is allote of hate out there for jews and i can see why. It is mostly out of jeolosy as far as i am concerned. These people have beenthe shit bag's of the last 2,000 years but still they persavered. Always stressing to their children the value of education and family values. And look at where they are now. In all honestly you have to give them credit.
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Old 07-19-2006, 09:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eternal Footman
All great points, this is a terrific piece. What really needs to happen now, is the U.S. turn their backs on Israel. No more weapons, no more money, no more military support. This will in turn give the militant warriors in Iran, Syria, Lebanon, etc. the green light to attack with greatly reduced conflict against them. At this point we will tighten the noose on Israel, force the Zionists to leave or be destroyed...and thus returning the land to its rightful heir.
So what you sre saying is that it is alright to eradicate the Jews. That sound an awfully lot like what Hitler said. Didn't the world view that as bad. Now you say it good.
By the way Israel was there first.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_history
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine
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Old 07-19-2006, 09:28 PM
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1. The U.S. would not have any enemies in the Islamic World.
2. There would be no Al-Qaeda Terrorist Network.
3. Gasoline would be selling for less than $1 a gallon.
4. There would have been no 9/11.
5. There would be no USA Patriot Law.
6. There would be no Homeland Security Agency.
7. The Israeli Lobby’s “unmatched power” over the U.S.’ foreign policy, for over four decades, would not had existed. (Its support for the Iraqi War was deemed by the experts to be “critical.”) [3]
8.There would also not have been any Neocon ideologues; like Paul Wolfowitz, William Kristol, Richard Perle, et al, to help, (along with other “Special Interests”), to push the U.S. into an illegal war with Iraq. [4]
Iran would not be the next target for U.S. aggression. (No Israel. No “A Clean Break” document. No Israeli Lobby. No Neocons. No need for the U.S. to attack Iran.) [5]
9. The Zionist fink, Jonathan Pollard, wouldn’t be in prison for stealing U.S. military secrets and hawking them to Israel.
10. The three million-plus Palestinians, who were forcefully dispersed from their homeland, since 1948, by the Israeli Occupation Forces, (IOF), would, instead, be living happily there today, in a free and independent state of Palestine. There would be no Apartheid Wall, or as a corollary, a Hamas organization. [6]
11. Jerusalem would have a vibrant Christian population. [7]
12. Rachel Corrie of Olympia, WA, would be alive and well. [8]
13. The 2,544 Americans who have died in Iraq would be alive; and the 18,777, who have been seriously wounded there, would be fully participating in our Republic. U.S. taxpayers would have an additional $295 billion, (the cost of the war), in the treasury to use to serve the social needs of the people. Universal Health Care would be a real possibility and Social Security would not be in jeopardy. Iraq would be at peace. There would be no Gitmo Bay detention center, or an Abu Ghraib Prison, or a reason for the Bush-Cheney Gang to gut Habeas Corpus. No need for it to also employ torturers, or chemical weapons, or hold detainees without charges or trial. The Geneva Convention would be respected. The tens of thousands of innocent Iraqis, who have died as a result of the war, would instead be alive today. (At the following footnote, see horrific photos of some of the Iraqi dead.) [9]
14. The battle to save our planet, its fragile ecosystem, its fast vanishing animal life and plants and to combat global warming, would be issue “No. 1.” [10] Instead, we are perpetually bombarded with propaganda about defending “Israel’s security.”
15. If there was no Israel, then the “five dancing Israelis” on 9/11 wouldn’t have been arrested. They were nailed after “celebrating” in NJ, while watching the Twin Towers collapsed. [11]
16. U.S. taxpayers would be $140 billion richer! This is the staggering amount they have shelled out over the last 58 years to support the ultra-greedy interests of the Zionist Cartel. [3]
17. The 34 Americans onboard the USS Liberty, who were slaughtered by the IOF, on June 8, 1967, would be alive today; and the 174 others who had suffered injuries that day would not have had to endure their horrific experiences. The shame the U.S. carries for not having quickly defended the men of the Liberty, and retaliated against the Israelis for their deliberate attack on the vessel, would have been avoided. [12]
18. On June 13, 2006, the IOF killed ten Palestinians, including three medical workers and two children, in the Gaza Strip. The Palestinian President, Mahmoud Abbas, labeled the missile attack an example of “state terrorism.” Only God knows how many Palestinians the Israelis have actually wasted since 1948; or exactly how many refugees it has created, or how many homes, a la Oliver Cromwell, the IOF have demolished. None of this would have been possible without the dubious “state of Israel.” [13]
19. Paul Bremer, a coat holder for Henry “Iago” Kissinger, would have never been appointed Viceroy for an Occupied Iraq. No Israel. No Iraqi War. No Zionist Bremer as Viceroy of Iraq. [14]
20. One of the reasons the Warren Commission failed to properly investigate the murder of JFK was because of Arlen Specter (R-PA), a card carrying Zionist. He was then a “Special Counsel” to the Commission. He concocted the preposterous “Magic Bullet” theory, which shut down any real conspiracy-type probe. It is also interesting to note, that Jacob Rubenstein, aka, “Jack Ruby,” Lee Harvey Oswald’s murderer, had close ties to Meyer Lansky’s National Crime Syndicate. I believe the answer to who really plotted JFK’s killing, died with Oswald. In any event after JFK’s death, Israel’s nuclear weapons program, which he had opposed went ahead. U.S. aid to Israel also increased dramatically. [15]
21. There would have been no reason for a French Ambassador to refer to Israel as “that shitty little country.” [16] In fact, the Jews of the world would have been liberated to fulfill their deepest spiritual quest, as embodied in their religion - Judaism. According to the highly respected Orthodox Rabbi, Dovid Yisroel Weiss, “Zionism has hijacked Judaism.” The courageous Rabbi insists that, “Zionism creates anti-Semitism...And we know...Zionism is the root cause for the pain, suffering and bloodshed of the Jewish people...and, they, (the Zionists), are the greatest factory of anti-Semitism worldwide...Judaism and Zionism is not one and the same. They are diametrically opposite...We should not be mistaken one for the other. And, we shouldn’t be responsible for the actions of what the Zionists do...Now, another of the problems that emanate actually from the Zionist Movement is the fact that they are encroaching upon the rights of the Palestinian people, the indigenous people, who are living there. And, this is terribly wrong. It is against every concept of the Torah...So, whatever they are doing is totally wrong!” [17]
22. Thousands of Israelis have died attempting to build a nation in a land, Palestine, which belonged to another people, the Palestinians. Their deaths would have been avoided. [18]
23. The widespread spying on Americans, without a court order, by operatives of the Bush-Cheney Gang, would have never happened. (No Israel. No 9/11. No spying on U.S. citizens.)
24. On April 4, 2003, a European Union (EU) poll named Israel as the “greatest threat to world peace.”
25. On June 27, 2006, the IOF proved the EU right by reoccupying Gaza, savagely terrorizing the civilian population, blowing up their electric/water generating facilities, conducting a mass arrest of their elected officials, and also, without just cause, provoking the Syrians. In response to the repeated shelling by the IOF of Gaza, Israel’s Prime Minister, Ehud Olmert, wisecracked, “Nobody dies from being uncomfortable!” When he addressed a Joint Session of the U.S. Congress, on May 24, 2006, Olmert received 38 breaks of applause and 18 standing ovations from that entity of mostly lapdogs. This is also the same Israeli leader, who, paraphrasing George Orwell's “Animal Farm,” said that he had a “deep regret” about the effects of some IOF’s operations which had killed 14 innocent Palestinians in just nine days, but that the lives of Israeli citizens were “even more important.”(20)
26. Finally, if there wasn’t a Zionist-created Israel, there also wouldn’t be any need for a commentary like this one!

http://iraqwar.mirror-world.ru/article/94773[/quote]

Excellent post Rasta. Of course the point being made was entirely missed by some. By reviewing history and addressing the issues may help determine how to solve problems. If indeed lines were drawn and land taken from one state there will be a seething anger that would be the response of anyone. This comment however is not anti-semitic or denying the tragedy of the Jewish people by the Nazis. Possibly those drawing the lines might have considered a piece of their own land to give the Jewish people a homeland.
Now if anyone refutes this with"well it was the Jewish homeland 1000 years earlier" one might consider that where most of us reside was someones elses homeland and sacred grounds. If that is your reply then think of the slaughter of the American Indians and the land we now capitalize on. I think the post by rasta brings this entire issue to the reality of both sides of the war between Muslims and Jews. Both have been wronged in the entire process beginning with the holocaust to the seizing of land from the Arabs to give create Israel.

I think putting your mind and emotion into why these countries continue to war is the first step to a solution. Yes "emotion" because that is what fuels the violence and each side trying to defend their land,family,beliefs and religion.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 07-19-2006, 09:30 PM
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Fine then would the world be better if America was never created?
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Old 07-19-2006, 11:21 PM
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Yes, it's a do over wish, but take each of his projections seperately. His logic in each is in line with things as they are. but put together it has too much threading, and life is no do over. Can't blame him for wishing it could be.

You judge his motives in a partisan manner. to hell with partisonship; it only perpetrates the "Them and Us" mindset, which is anti cooperation and perpetuates selfrightousness.
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Old 07-19-2006, 11:28 PM
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For real, the answer to would the world be better if America was never established. The answer is yes and no. Yes for the things America has done that are wrong, and no for the good things America has done.
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