Thread: Guns are for pussies who can't fight.

You're lucky he didn't come back with a molotov cocktail & burn down the barn.

Or the house.

Originally Posted by Jarlaxle

You're lucky he didn't come back with a molotov cocktail & burn down the barn.

Or the house.

Damn lucky. I put the fear of God in him and he wanted no more. I was young and extremely stupid. If that scenario were to happen today, I would hide in the barn with my digital video camera and then I would go to the sheriff's office and let the sherriff handle it. It was over 30yrs ago and people just did things differently.

i own 17 guns,bounced solo 14 yrs.have all my teeth and straight nose. love to meet you.all you guys are so tough when hit someone in the back of the head when they are not looking.i will put my 48 fights in the ring and hundreds of bar fights against your as any day.

WoW youre fucking retarded

whats with the che rightwing are you a fucking idiot as well?

SEIU Foot soldier? are you serious!.. Global Unions all the way woooo! whats fucking up are country yeaaa!

Originally Posted by Oldman

DirtyBiggs, I can't see as well as I used to but the Remington 700 in 30.06 wearing a 6 x 24 x 50mm scope allows me to bust milk jugs at about 800 yards. Come to think of it, I don't recall ever shooter her with Iron sights. I know I didn't because she doesn't have iron sights. But I have a lot of 1970's and early 80's dollars in that baby girl. I had everything the Remington Custom shop could to it done. She has won me a bunch of bets over the years. Probably paid for her self so I can't bitch.

Like Ditry said, Bulshitman, what is really on your mind??? What seems to be the problem????

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH, You lie.

LMAO, people talk such shit and have no fucking clue how stupid they look when they try to pretend they can do something.....


If you were a REAL long range shooter your post would have went something along this line.

I hand load all my own rounds. My balistics are.4 inchelow then dialed 9.25 moa for 500 with a 160 accubond @ 2950 ish fps(or something like that) . The math formula I use is (insert here) so I carry a calculator, note pad and pen, and log my shots.


It would go something like that. I hunt alot, this so I know alittle about shooting. I dont mean weekend warrior im a bad ass hunting, I mean hunting. I will try and explain it to you, pay attention.

Shooting past 500 yards is a skill just like any other... it CAN be learned and practiced.

The pulling of the trigger is the EASY part. I would dare say I could take 99% of the general population (excluding those who flinch or have a tremor) and have them make a 1 shot kill in the vitals at 500 yards every time. But that's with my gun and me dialing in the dope for wind and drop.

And that's where the hard part comes into play, both in terms of time at the range and $$$ spent...

First, you have to have a rifle which is capable of shooting 1/2- 3/4 MOA... every time, all day long. I'm not talking about a rifle that shoots a 1/2 MOA group with 3 shots once in a blue moon and you brag it's a 1/2 MOA gun...

Just as important as the rifle is the ammunition you use... you're way behind the 8 ball if you don't handload, and even if you do, you've got to work up a load with a bullet which will perform at the intended distance and velocity loss... Having a load with a low extreme spread is tantamount. That usually amounts to a ton of range time finding that 'just right' combination of velocity, low ES, group size, etc.

Don't forget the optics on top... you've got to have a scope which holds true and rezero's perfectly after you've dialed in 60 clicks up and then spin it back to zero. That alone removes virtually all scopes under the $400 price range.

And the rangefinder... not your average 500-800 yard rangefinder... they won't work on a deer sized target past 500 yards... You've got to step up to a Leica 1200 or the Swarovski (or equivalent)

Now you've got to shoot for groups at a distance. A 1/2 MOA load at 100 yards may be a 1 to 1.5 MOA load at 300-500 yards. If so, it's back to the drawing board.

Then you've got to work out the drop chart for that particular load, paying particular attention to the conditions (temp, altitude, humidity, etc) in case they will be significantly different from hunting conditions. You actually HAVE to shoot your rifle at those distances you plan on hunting... I've found computer calculated drop charts to frequently be off 1 or 2 MOA's past 500 yards (or 7.5 to 15 inches off at 750!).

Next comes doping the wind.... and that is the really hard part. You have to learn how to not only judge wind speed, but also wind direction. Just guessing, esp past 10 mph, is a recipe for disaster. In those cases, a Kestrel wind meter is a must-have. Then you have to actually shoot in those conditions, an experience which is more than a little humbling. Actually shooting in 10mph winds at 700 yards will make you realize (at least it makes me realize) the potential for disaster in a real-world hunting situation. My personal limit is 10mph on a deer past 500 yards. But there are many that are more than capable well beyond that.

Of course, all this shooting is taking place in real-world hunting conditions, not off a bench with sandbags at the range. I prefer to use a bipod for the front rest and a sandbag under the rear of the stock. I can carry a fairly lightweight homemade sandbag filled with dry rice when I hunt and it works well. With that setup, you would be surprised how stable it is... you can easily hold on a 6" sapling at 1000 yards.

By now, you've become fairly proficient at shooting targets long range. So a deer should be a piece of cake, right? Nope, not even close. Here's where your previous years of hunting experience come into play. You've got to shoot a deer which is completely stationary. And not just stationary when you pull the trigger, but remains stationary for the 1/2 second to 3/4 second it takes for the bullet to reach the animal. And that's all about body behavior. A deer on high alert is out- as it could bolt at any second. A walking deer is out- needs to be stationary. Less than broadside is out- too small of a kill zone. About the only deer you can safely shoot is one calmly feeding/ pausing broadside. So right there, you eliminate probably 75% of potential shots. You've also got to be able to call your shot (bullet impact) or have a spotter with you to call the shot. Because of this, I prefer brakes on my long range rigs- I'm not recoil shy, but I want to be able to see the bullet impact the deer through the scope. If the deer is running after the initial shot, there's not much of a chance for a followup.

Oh, and don't forget- you've actually got to be able to find/ recover the animal you shoot. Sounds simple, but at 700 yards it's just not that easy. You can improve odds by shooting high shoulder for a bang-flop, but even when the animal drops it's a long way from the shooting position to the target.

I can honestly say that I've never lost a deer past 400 yards. I've never missed a deer past 400 yards, nor have I ever had to shoot more than once past 400 yards. But I'm extremely careful and won't pull the trigger unless I'm 100% confident in the deer's attitude and wind speed/direction (I'm already 100% confident in my capabilities out to my comfort zone and my rifle's capabilities).

And I don't set up on spots with the sole intention of shooting deer long-range... The spots I hunt with my long range rig are just as likely to produce a deer at 100-150 yards as they are 700 yards. The advantage I get is being able to cover more ground and do so without the deer even knowing they were hunted... no human scent/ intrusion unless I go into the bulk of the farm to retrieve the deer I've killed.


My buddy got into long range shooting 5 years ago after I took him on my farm and he killed his first deer past 150 yards- a one shot 336 yard kill (he had always hunted in the woods). He's practiced and perfected his handloading techniques and long range shooting. 2 years ago he took a doe at 550 yards with me as a spotter. Last year he took one at 640 with me spotting. This year he wanted one at 1000 yards...

After lots of range time at 1000 yards, we were both confident in his rig and loads. He had the dope dialed in from a couple days before, so he decided to hunt from the spot we shoot steel at 1000 yards. A group of does came out 350 yards away from the steel. He ranged them at 1007 yards. So he shot the steel first as a sighting shot to reconfirm his zero, centerpunched the steel plate, then got back on the deer. The deer all just looked around after the shot and went back to feeding. He waited for a broadside shot on a feeding doe and smoked her through the heart at 1007 yards. She did run around 50 yards before piling up, but they were in a wide-open field and she was easily recovered.


People do not just make shoots at 500 yards and over, it takes practice and money to do. The next time you talk about shooting please think first, I dont ike my brain to hurt.

People living in a civilized country dont need to be armed, thats why they provide police. Police Unions are for tighter gun restrictions. that must have a reason?

Originally Posted by Sir Benny

People living in a civilized country dont need to be armed, thats why they provide police. Police Unions are for tighter gun restrictions. that must have a reason?

Police Unions where? "Civilized" how?

Originally Posted by Sir Benny

People living in a civilized country dont need to be armed, thats why they provide police. Police Unions are for tighter gun restrictions. that must have a reason?

I disagree with your definition of what a civilized society is and that civilian ownership of firearms is a blot on it. Being civilized is -not- having lethal instruments for self defense forcibly removed from you. Being civilized is having those instruments in your possession and choosing not to use them.

I find it astounding that you so easily dismiss the havoc caused by the murderers, rapists and robbers walking in our midst, and then, without missing a breath or embarrassment tell gun rights supporters that we are uncivilized savages for protecting and exercising the right of self-defense. That position tells me that you believe the chaos and pain caused by criminals is less of a problem for, or a threat to your concept of what a "civilized" society is, than the men and women who believe themselves free and independent and act accordingly.

Only speaking for myself, I feel you could be correct on that account.

----------------

PS: You do know that in the USA your belief in police protection is a mirage don't you?

Police are not duty bound to render any services (especially protection) to any individual person.

. . .a fundamental principle of American law that a government and its agents are under no general duty to provide public services, such as police protection, to any individual citizen.

Warren v. District of Columbia, 444 A.2d 1, 6 (D.C.App. 1981)

Most states have laws that exempt police from any liability or obligation to protect you no matter how negligently they perform their duties. California's statute is quite typical:

"Neither a public entity nor a public employee is liable for failure to establish a police department or otherwise provide police protection service or, if police protection service is provided, for failure to provide sufficient police protection service.

California Government Code § 845 (1982)

Many states that have no such law on the books have achieved the same result by letting their courts make this decision instead. Some case law finding that there is no obligation to provide police protection:

Bowers v. Del~to 686 F. 2d 616 (7th Cir. 1982)
Calogrides v. Mobile, 475 So. 2d 560 (Ala. 1985)
Davidson v. Westminster, 32 Cal.3d 197, 185 Cal. Rep. 252; 649 P.2d 894 (1982)
Stone v. State 106 Cal. App.3d 924, 165 Cal. Rep. 339 (1980)
Morgan v. District of Columbia, 468 A.2d 1306 (D.C.App. 1983)
Sappv. Tallahassee, 348 So.2d 363 (Fla. App. 1st Dist.), cert. denied 354 So.2d 985 (Fla. 1977)
Keane v. Chicago, 98 Ill. App.2d 460, 240 N.E.2d 321 (lst Dist. 1968)
Jamison v. Chicago, 48 Ill. App. 3d 567 (lst Dist. 1977)
Simpsonts Food Fair v. Evansville, 272 N.E.2d 871 (Ind. App.)
Silver v. Minneapolis 170 N.W. 2d 206 (Minn. 1969)
Wuetrich v. Delia, 155 N.J. Super. 324, 326, 382 A.2d 929, 930, certif, denied 77 N.J. 486, 391 A.2d 500 (1978)
Chapman v. Philadelphia, 290 Pa. Super. 281,434 A.2d 753 (Penn. 1981)
Morris v. Musser, 84 Pa. Cmwth. 170, 478 A.2d 937 (1984).

Americans are "on their own" legaly when it comes to personal security. A nation that protects its police from action for not protecting citizens and then disarms those citizens rendering them helpless can not be considered "civilized."

IMNSHO it is barbaric . . .