Obama helped fund handgun-ban efforts

piston_broke · #21 (**permalink**) 04-28-2008, 05:36 AM

Most violent crime is caused by drunken idiots, I might add. Organised crime is still around, guns or no guns.

wow · #22 (**permalink**) 04-28-2008, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by piston_broke

Oh dear... can't see the truth of the world past your own nose I see. Right. You. Do. Not. Need. Guns. People will always try and murder, rape and bugger no matter if you're armed to the teeth or not. They care not if you're packing an uzi, or a .556 SA-80 Mk2 (excellent weapon, imo). Guns make things worse, not better. Besides, we asked for guns to be banned after a little incident called Dunblane where a nutter armed to the teeth walked into a school and blew away half a kindergarten. Need I mention Columbine et al? That wasn't caused by heavy metal, you know.

It's obvious, these prescription drugs are playing a role in this violence.
The drugees that get high on prescirption drugs would rather ban guns than have their drugs banned.

A. Crowley · #23 (**permalink**) 04-28-2008, 01:03 PM

piston_broke · #24 (**permalink**) 04-28-2008, 01:06 PM

I'm not on prescription drugs. Your point?

Yellowjacket · #25 (**permalink**) 04-28-2008, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by piston_broke

We got rid of guns after we realised they created far more harm than good. And paedophiles (note the spelling, illiterati, please) are not hiding behind every bush trying to get your children, criminals aren't trying to smash your house in. You're stuck in a culture of fear. Incidentally, I think it ironic that Charlton Heston can now have a gun pried from his cold, dead hands...

If I recall my history, it seems that about 70 years ago or so, when Adolph and his lads were raising bloody hell on the continent and causing some concern on your home island, you chaps were running a bit short on guns to defend yourselves with. At that point, you chaps were most pleased that Americans had plenty of guns and even "borrowed" a few from us. So sorry for causing you all that harm. Maybe if it happens again, we should do you good and say no, and let the next Hitler have you.
As to the culture of fear, I spend 40 hours a week with violent criminals. If they're really out to get you, you're not paranoid!
As to Mr. Heston's gun, I find it more a matter of pride than irony that he fought for and maintained his right to bear arms for a lifetime. Only death deprived him of his rights, as it does all of us.

piston_broke · #26 (**permalink**) 04-28-2008, 01:15 PM

Guns for the military and in civilian hands are two different things entirely. Have you truly no clue?

Yellowjacket · #27 (**permalink**) 04-29-2008, 05:17 PM

Not being "subjects", Americans prefer to be armed for our own defense, and our founders provided us with the protection of that right.

Quote:

"I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials."
— George Mason, in Debates in Virginia Convention on Ratification of the Constitution, Elliot, Vol. 3, June 16, 1788

Quote:

"Whereas civil-rulers, not having their duty to the people duly before them, may attempt to tyrannize, and as military forces, which must be occasionally raised to defend our country, might pervert their power to the injury of their fellow citizens, the people are confirmed by the article in their right to keep and bear their private arms."
-- Tench Coxe, in Remarks on the First Part of the Amendments to the Federal Constitution

Quote:

"The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed."
-- Alexander Hamilton, The Federalist Papers at 184-188

Quote:

"That the said Constitution shall never be construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the press or the rights of conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms ... "
-- Samuel Adams, Debates and Proceedings in the Convention of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, at 86-87 (Pierce & Hale, eds., Boston, 1850)

Quote:

"[The Constitution preserves] the advantage of being armed which Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation...(where) the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms."
--James Madison, The Federalist Papers, No. 46

Quote:

Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each man against his own bosom. Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birthright of an American...[T]he unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people."
--Tenche Coxe, The Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788.

Even Hitler was smart enough to see the need to disarm "subjects":

Quote:

"The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to allow the subject races to possess arms. History shows that all conquerors who have allowed their subject races to carry arms have prepared their own downfall by so doing."
-- Adolph Hitler, Hitler's Secret Conversations 403 (Norman Cameron and R.H. Stevens trans., 1961)

Yellowjacket · #28 (**permalink**) 04-29-2008, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by piston_broke

Guns for the military and in civilian hands are two different things entirely. Have you truly no clue?

When your country is attacked is precisely the wrong time to discover you lack the firearms for defense and are at your attacker's mercy. An armed citizenry is a guarantee that will never happen.

piston_broke · #29 (**permalink**) 04-30-2008, 01:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yellowjacket

When your country is attacked is precisely the wrong time to discover you lack the firearms for defense and are at your attacker's mercy. An armed citizenry is a guarantee that will never happen.

You also have to bear in mind that amendment to the constitution was put in place over 200 years ago. These days an armed citizenry is just as likely to turn on each other than defend themselves. And since when is the US going to be invaded in this day and age? It's far easier to nuke the hell out of a country or convince them they're going to be blown up by some hirsute dark-skinned bloke, dressed in a kaftan and driving a semi loaded with fertiliser.

DEMOCANT · #30 (**permalink**) 04-30-2008, 01:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by piston_broke

Are you all smoking crack? Why does anyone *need* a gun anyways?

To kick the fuckin' English out so we can have a great country. You guys don't get to own guns do you Piston..? Well, we like guns, lots of guns. It's not a question of need it's the point of true freedom. Do the British "need" to be on CCTV every where they go.......?