I once had a philosophical discussion with a business owner about his "no guns" sign, in front of several witnesses. His statement was, that as a property owner it was his right to decide if he allowed guns or not. I pointed out that this same owner had vocally supported a law banning smoking in ALL businesses and public places. This law took away that same right to decide for all those other property owners, thus he was a hypocrite. I then informed him that I could not in good conscience do business with a hypocrite. All of this was done in a normal speaking tone without raising my voice or causing a disturbance. As I walked out, so did many other customers, some even left their full carts in the checkout line.

Quote:
If you support property rights, you support the rights of property owners to say no guns allowed on our property.
You can not have it both ways.

I know of sveral large chain stores that were located near collored neighborhoods that went out of business due to rampet shoplifting....

Would you support the business' property rights ...

by the posting of signs declaring no negro people allowed?

THey knew who was stealing....was that basis for dening access to all blacks...?

Please dont try to slide this under the rug as discriminatory...

with the CCW law they have no idea who is carrying...nor even any histoy that legal carriers constitute a threat

Needless to say...anyone who was going to commit a crime with a gun...would not be detered by his sign anyway...

In fact, he could be pretty sure that no one there would be armed...

and since the right to self defense is an individual right, could the store owner be sued if a CCW license holder was shot or injured by such a perpetrator?

especially since he denied them the protection of their license...and provided no alternative?

You can not have it both ways.

It depends on your definition of Property. I believe a place of business is the same as someone's house. He has the ultimate decision in saying, "no Smoking" or "no firearms", or "no concealed weapons".

In spite of that, he has not the right to tell other businesses (or property owners) that they have to do the same. Me and a friend of mine, own a music store. We sell Amplifiers, Instruments, Soundboards, etc. I do not want smoking in my business. As smoke would damage the equipment I sell. Especially the used equipment and Electric Guitars we sell, over time. I do not however see the relevance in saying the same to a Restaurant or a Tavern or Cigar bar, etc.

So it comes down to freedom, I say. Just as I support the rights of Bussinesses to say no smoking or no Guns, I would support (equally) the rights of bussinesses and property owners to allow them.

Government regulation is not needed in this. Which is the fundemental issue above all others. We need to reiterate the simple truth that Government is not needed in this. Which takes the extremes from the Anti-Somethings to being law.

__________________
"It is the Right of the People to alter or abolish the Government"
Declaration of Independence
"Never trouble another for what you can do for yourself."
Thomas Jefferson
"If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand."
Milton Friedman

The burden of enforcement lies on the Property Owner if he chooses to keep something off of his property. Not the Government.

__________________
"It is the Right of the People to alter or abolish the Government"
Declaration of Independence
"Never trouble another for what you can do for yourself."
Thomas Jefferson
"If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand."
Milton Friedman

Hello Stupid ever heard of Polly the Parrot well all these little post Columnbine Peabrained idiots with an axe to grind are still out there. It's the fools and peabrained idiots that are the problem not the weapon. You are the classic stupid dumb whiner. Go to Hell!!

The blind and the stupid are still leading the blind and the stupid.Have a nice day.

I will clarify this even further. Most people are going disagree with me, but this is where I stand and what I believe. So deal with it.


I believe in absolute Individual Rights. This follows in line with Property Rights. I would be one of the few people in my age bracket, (23 years of age) to say this type of thing.

Well, what is property?

Property is everything you have that is not Government owned. Like your body or house.

I choose to Smoke, because my body is my property. The same principle is applied to the war on drugs, in my personal views.

So you get the jist of what I mean.


A business who as I would hope. Has Sovereign rights over his property. Just as a person can say no smoking in my house. He or she can and should be allowed to say, go ahead and smoke. Same applies for private businesses. Who in the same vein, should be allowed to discriminate in employment or who it serves. Yes, I support the rights of Private Bussinesses to discriminate for employment and it's own customers under the same principle?

Why? Not because I am racist or think people should be segregated. It's because I acknowledge the rights of Private Property Owners to have Sovereignty over his or her property.

The person discriminated against also has the absolute right of Freedom of Speech and Protest and under the same principle should have the right to protest and organize boycotts against that business. Which under the free market would make that business lose money. In today's day and age, it would not be a smart decision to discriminate like that, but I would support his right to employ, fire or serve anyone he chooses or to deny those services and employment to anyone, for anyone reason.

Same goes for Concealed Weapons. Which I think is an absolute right under the 2nd Amendment. You have a right to carry a weapon, unless of course your on....


Private Property, who's owner has the Sovereign right to say, "no guns", "no Smoking", "no Shirt, no shoes, no service" and so on.

So indeed, you can not have one aspect of private property rights, without embracing and supporting all of it. Freedom and Liberty give you the best and worsts of society. In the end, however. When it comes to Businesses, the best usually succeeds and the idiots and racists lose money. Thus allowing for true equally not enforced by unfair laws and hiring quotas but by Free Market principles that ensure Racial, Gender, Ethnic, Religious equality in a Diverse Nation.

__________________
"It is the Right of the People to alter or abolish the Government"
Declaration of Independence
"Never trouble another for what you can do for yourself."
Thomas Jefferson
"If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand."
Milton Friedman

So many party poopers! I love and respect the 2nd amendment...My S&W Model66..and my Thompson 1939 model sub 45cal says so too........

__________________

www.hack1966.com/aircav.html
www.comstockcowboys.com
http://trollbridge.forumcircle.com

I agree that property owners have absolute rights...

I was pointing out that all rights carry corresponding responsibilities...

Banning legally licensed and armed people fro a busines IS a right

It is aso extreme stupidity

It sets up obvious "fish in the barrel" kill zones...by alerting perpetrators they have nothing to worry about

and the sign means nothing to such people that would perpetrate the act...

As I did say. The burden of Enforcement on Private Property falls on the property owner and not the tax payers.

__________________
"It is the Right of the People to alter or abolish the Government"
Declaration of Independence
"Never trouble another for what you can do for yourself."
Thomas Jefferson
"If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand."
Milton Friedman