Now is the time to BUY and TRAIN on firearms! Most definitely!

cat's meow · #41 (**permalink**) 01-10-2008, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PLeasant

Cat's, oh cat's.....
You seem like a reasonable person, and I appreciate your respect for the 2nd amendment. You say you were in the military (so do a lot of people in forums like these) and if you truly were, than let me thank you for your service. Surely there is no greater defense of our constitutional privileges than service to our nation. I also agree with your statement that "people and ideas" are what make this country great.

I implore you to take that thought just a little further. We are in fact a great nation. Both our natural, and intellectual resources, combined with our freedoms are envied the world over. Why is that you, along with so many others fall short of realizing that these are the same reasons our country is a prime candidate for tyranny? And the only reason we have not already succumb to a dictatorship, or some other form of despotic rule is not because of our intellect, but instead because our population is armed. "They" can't have their cake and eat it too unless they can control our will. They being people like Cheney and his corporate/bankster sponsors who would just love to rule unabated over the American land and it's people. You know what I'm talking about, especially if you are former military. Hearts and minds are one thing, but in the end you must control the ground, and the only resistance to that is firepower. While I agree that there are dozens of other ways that control of this country could be, and is being, usurped. Again, it has to be enforced. And again, the only reason they don't is because we are an armed society. I fully support your right to go unarmed, but from one human being to another, I feel very strongly when I say that a day is coming, maybe not tomorrow, but sooner than a lot of people think, when you will wish you had thought the better of it.

Incidently, if you don't think it can happen here, go talk to a constitutional lawyer about the effect the "Patriot Act" has had on our rights. Habeas corpus is gone. Or, just go find a jew that lived through Hitler's Germany and the concentration camps. Ask them if they think what I'm saying is paranoid.

There is no 'imploring about anything when your argument is so terribly flawed.

Great justification but you have overlooked a great deal of problems with your basic premise...and I have not yet 'taken your guns away.'

If this were all true then Canada would have been taken over because they do not have a 'Second Amendment.' Your logic is quite flawed about all this, there are a great deal of countries that have not been 'taken over' who do not try to rely on this sort of thinking. I really don't need to go further than that, you have not even compared countries who do not have this sort of 2nd amendment mentality that is so overwhelmingly prevalant here.

Call me from the bunker when the siege happens...I will be long gone and and in my grave for many, many years---hundreds of years from now. My giving a shit will not matter whole hell of a lot at that point.

satv365 · #42 (**permalink**) 01-10-2008, 10:34 PM

We have the 2nd Amendment to make sure we have the ability to repel tyranny and oppression from Foreign Powers and our own Government. Not to mention to protect ourselves and our Property from crime and fraud.

cat's meow · #43 (**permalink**) 01-10-2008, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by satv365

We have the 2nd Amendment to make sure we have the ability to repel tyranny and oppression from Foreign Powers and our own Government. Not to mention to protect ourselves and our Property from crime and fraud.

Hey, answer the question. Tell me something about Canada, how do they ever handle this tricky tryanny thing?

crowonapost · #44 (**permalink**) 01-10-2008, 10:53 PM

Isn't Great Britain totally controlled by Greeks?

They have no second amendment.

The cops don't even generally walk around with guns.

Should be easy!

PLeasant · #45 (**permalink**) 01-10-2008, 11:06 PM

Uhmm...the last time I checked Canadians can own guns. Maybe I'm wrong but...

A Practical Guide to Canada's Gun Laws for Americans

Referencing countries like England, Canada, and Norway, who live under what are for all intents and practices Socialist governments isn't going to help your cause. Our rights compared to their's are vastly different. It would certainly be interesting if America woke up tomorrow under the laws of say England. I dare say the revolution would start sometime after the first cup of coffee.

noneof yourbusiness · #46 (**permalink**) 01-10-2008, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crowonapost

Isn't Great Britain totally controlled by Greeks?

They have no second amendment.

The cops don't even generally walk around with guns.

Should be easy!

The Bobbys dont have guns they are for show mostly. If the limiey oinkers need weapons they have them though.

wvpeach · #47 (**permalink**) 01-10-2008, 11:14 PM

I get your point . In fact when I met my husband I rescued him from mindless NRA voting . A fact he now says he is glad of .

The fact is abortion will never end. There will always be gay people , and the American people are not stupid enough to ever give up their guns . All three issues should be non issues and only stupid people or let me put it more delicately only unthinking people allow these issues to be wedge issues . Its stupid people that make one of them their sole criteria for their vote.

That still doesn't change the fact Cat that some of us have worked peacefully and tirelessly for a change for many decades and now are despairing change will ever come by peaceful means.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cat's meow

Here is the classic point.

Go back and look at the specific side the original thread was railing against...the left.

When the 'right' ran for the White House and took control of the government in 2000 they played on the sympathies of NRA gun owners and ranchers in places like Wyoming, the Dakotas, Montana, etc and of course promised to leave them alone. Shortly after the election those areas were opened up to a great deal of energy exploration through mineral rights (environmental laws got changed) and those same pro-NRA gun owners who voted for the right then were seeing their pristine ranches and open spaces being pock marked by drilling and trucks running back and forth. These people were furious (but they voted Bush and Cheney in).

Is this a liberals fault? Did a Democrat do this? Did Al Gore slap the face of gun owners and people in rural areas in the state of Wyoming after he was elected in? No, that was Dick Cheney. Did a liberal disregard the people in the Dakotas who protect thier lands with guns, etc? Did a liberal exploit minerals rights laws so friends in private industry can make a buck?

PLeasant · #48 (**permalink**) 01-10-2008, 11:16 PM

While I'm at it I wanted to mention the irony of your perspective versus your signature.

I have relatives living in Texas and I can't think of one of them that doesn't have a cabinet full of firearms. In fact, I can't think of a single state where gun ownership is more prevalent. The outdoors is a way of life for those people. Hunting and fishing is like going to church on Sunday. It would be interesting, to say the least, to see what would happen if you tried to take away gun ownership in Texas...

wvpeach · #49 (**permalink**) 01-10-2008, 11:17 PM

Excellent post pleasant .

Deserves to be seen again . Quote , Quote , Quote the great post .

Quote:

Originally Posted by PLeasant

Cat's, oh cat's.....
You seem like a reasonable person, and I appreciate your respect for the 2nd amendment. You say you were in the military (so do a lot of people in forums like these) and if you truly were, than let me thank you for your service. Surely there is no greater defense of our constitutional privileges than service to our nation. I also agree with your statement that "people and ideas" are what make this country great.

I implore you to take that thought just a little further. We are in fact a great nation. Both our natural, and intellectual resources, combined with our freedoms are envied the world over. Why is that you, along with so many others fall short of realizing that these are the same reasons our country is a prime candidate for tyranny? And the only reason we have not already succumb to a dictatorship, or some other form of despotic rule is not because of our intellect, but instead because our population is armed. "They" can't have their cake and eat it too unless they can control our will. They being people like Cheney and his corporate/bankster sponsors who would just love to rule unabated over the American land and it's people. You know what I'm talking about, especially if you are former military. Hearts and minds are one thing, but in the end you must control the ground, and the only resistance to that is firepower. While I agree that there are dozens of other ways that control of this country could be, and is being, usurped. Again, it has to be enforced. And again, the only reason they don't is because we are an armed society. I fully support your right to go unarmed, but from one human being to another, I feel very strongly when I say that a day is coming, maybe not tomorrow, but sooner than a lot of people think, when you will wish you had thought the better of it.

Incidently, if you don't think it can happen here, go talk to a constitutional lawyer about the effect the "Patriot Act" has had on our rights. Habeas corpus is gone. Or, just go find a jew that lived through Hitler's Germany and the concentration camps. Ask them if they think what I'm saying is paranoid.

wvpeach · #50 (**permalink**) 01-10-2008, 11:23 PM

Cat

In the modern world stage the US face it is the biggest player . Other countries benefit like Canada from the fact we US citizens keep and bear arms .

If US citizens gave up their arms , it would not be very long till some traitor like Bush decided he was going to rule the world . And then Canada would fall with the rest.

Countries like Canada can live free non violently precisely because a armed American populace keeps the people who would rule the world in check.

Now at some point they may try to sneak like foxes in the hen house and stop the American people from defending freedom . It is that we have to guard against.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cat's meow

There is no 'imploring about anything when your argument is so terribly flawed.

Great justification but you have overlooked a great deal of problems with your basic premise...and I have not yet 'taken your guns away.'

If this were all true then Canada would have been taken over because they do not have a 'Second Amendment.' Your logic is quite flawed about all this, there are a great deal of countries that have not been 'taken over' who do not try to rely on this sort of thinking. I really don't need to go further than that, you have not even compared countries who do not have this sort of 2nd amendment mentality that is so overwhelmingly prevalant here.

Call me from the bunker when the siege happens...I will be long gone and and in my grave for many, many years---hundreds of years from now. My giving a shit will not matter whole hell of a lot at that point.