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04-27-2008, 10:09 PM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Join Date: May 2006
Location: Oregon
Posts: 5,962
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1wiseguy
Let me ask you some questions...
1. What is the optimal temperature for life on Earth? After all if we don't know this temperature then how do we know if we need to stop warming?
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I do know that rising temperatures will be detrimental to human health and water supplies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1wiseguy
2. What is man's percent of CO2 contribution?
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I am not an IPCC, climate on NASA scientist. In the studies they have ranged from stating dominant to 70-95%. I do not know the answer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1wiseguy
3. Given man's CO2 contribution, what natural or physical laws support AGW/CC?
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There are many scientific laws that apply , but the the one that comes to mind first is the Stefan Boltzmann Law.
There are many reasons to reduce CO2 emissions and if the consensus of the majority world's leading scientists do not convince you, the geopolitical,security and economic aspects should.
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04-27-2008, 10:36 PM
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Political Mastermind
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dirtyp
Some scientists believe global warming will actually decrease — not increase — the number of hurricanes that form over the Atlantic Ocean each year. Last Friday, in the final session of the hurricane conference, a pair of climate experts said rising sea-surface temperatures in and near the Caribbean could strengthen vertical wind shear. Robust wind shear is the bane of hurricanes, as it tends to tear apart cyclones during their formative stages.
Expert: "We're brainwashing our children" about global warming
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global warming or not, that makes no sense. of course global warming would cause storms. do you even get how storms start? dumb dumb dumb
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04-29-2008, 01:47 AM
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Political Mastermind
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: San Diego, Ca
Posts: 2,210
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OMFG!!!!! I just heard that mushrooms contribute to global warming!!!! All of you GD tree hugging nature fascists will now have to eat something else besides mushrooms. 
__________________
THAT explains it!!!
Word of warning... I don't play well with others.
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04-29-2008, 02:01 AM
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Political Guru
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 562
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam
I do know that rising temperatures will be detrimental to human health and water supplies.
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How do you know this? The science I am familiar with indicate warmer temperatures are beneficial....increased productivity of food sources and so on. Nonetheless... that is not what I asked. What is the optimal temperature? Meaning, at what temperature does the earth need to be at for a beneficial balance to be attained?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam
I am not an IPCC, climate on NASA scientist. In the studies they have ranged from stating dominant to 70-95%. I do not know the answer.
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You are correct, you do not know the answer. Man's contribution is <1%. With out knowing this answer, answering the remaining questions would make little sense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam
There are many scientific laws that apply , but the the one that comes to mind first is the Stefan Boltzmann Law.
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You are right, there are many laws that apply, but how is this relevant? Stefan's law is about calculating the "effective" temperature and this has nothing to do with "optimal" temperature nor does it contribute toward explaining how the 1% of CO2 emission by man is capable of having any significance on the other 99% of this dynamic, complex adaptive system we call Earth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam
There are many reasons to reduce CO2 emissions
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I think you are getting ahead of yourself. As best I can tell, we have not yet determined that CO2 and certainly not man's contribution of CO2 is significant in affecting the Earth's Climate and certainly not significant to the point of being able to "control" Earth's climate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam
...and if the consensus of the majority world's leading scientists do not convince you, the geopolitical,security and economic aspects should.
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I can be convinced, but only with real science not politics...and I have yet to see any real science being used to support the panic that is being generated. Who are the scientists that make up this "consensus"?... not that this really matters anyway, because as far as I know, there is no such thing as "consensus" in science. If it is to be science, it either is... or it is not... the rigors of the scientific method makes no room for agreements. Agreements are for politics. Climate change is nothing more than a hypothesis and needs to undergo the scrutiny of all the scientific disciplines so that we can make it settled science--one way or the other---and as of now, it is not settled.
__________________
"Liberals live in a house of mirrors...that is why they don't like what they see" 1WISEGUY
'My friends, we live in the greatest nation in the history of the world. I hope you'll join with me as we try to change it.'
-- Barack Obama
"If God had wanted us to vote, he would have given us candidates. " Jay Leno
Last edited by 1wiseguy : 04-29-2008 at 02:08 AM.
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04-30-2008, 11:53 PM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 12,498
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam
I am not an IPCC, climate on NASA scientist. In the studies they have ranged from stating dominant to 70-95%. I do not know the answer.
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Where do they say this? I have seen much smaller ranges.
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04-30-2008, 11:53 PM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Join Date: May 2006
Location: Oregon
Posts: 5,962
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1wiseguy
How do you know this? The science I am familiar with indicate warmer temperatures are beneficial....increased productivity of food sources and so on. Nonetheless... that is not what I asked. What is the optimal temperature? Meaning, at what temperature does the earth need to be at for a beneficial balance to be attained?.
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If you cannot follow what rising sea levels and melting ice shelfs will do then I will not exlain it to you. There could be some small regions that the rising temperatures would have transient positive effects for agriculture,yet in the end the negative impact is over shadows this. If we get to the point that massive amounts of methane are released in melting permafrost it will cause momentum to exceed what has been predicted.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1wiseguy
You are correct, you do not know the answer. Man's contribution is <1%. With out knowing this answer, answering the remaining questions would make little sense..
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I said I did not know where in the range given (70-100%) it was likely to fall. Do you want to explain your <1% statistic?
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1wiseguy
You are right, there are many laws that apply, but how is this relevant? Stefan's law is about calculating the "effective" temperature and this has nothing to do with "optimal" temperature nor does it contribute toward explaining how the 1% of CO2 emission by man is capable of having any significance on the other 99% of this dynamic, complex adaptive system we call Earth..
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Stephans law is about Stefan-Boltzmann equation - that converts radiant energy to temperature. It has nothing to do with effective or optimal temperatures. Do you even know what you are talking about when referring to laws of science?
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1wiseguy
I can be convinced, but only with real science not politics...and I have yet to see any real science being used to support the panic that is being generated. Who are the scientists that make up this "consensus"?... not that this really matters anyway, because as far as I know, there is no such thing as "consensus" in science. If it is to be science, it either is... or it is not... the rigors of the scientific method makes no room for agreements. Agreements are for politics. Climate change is nothing more than a hypothesis and needs to undergo the scrutiny of all the scientific disciplines so that we can make it settled science--one way or the other---and as of now, it is not settled.
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No, it is scientific theory and and based upon scientific laws.
There is no panic, just rational people that understand that we need to seek alternative energy not only to reduce emissions , but for the geo-political, security, and economic factors as well.
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05-01-2008, 08:59 AM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: everywhere
Posts: 14,197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oedipus Rex
OMFG!!!!! I just heard that mushrooms contribute to global warming!!!! All of you GD tree hugging nature fascists will now have to eat something else besides mushrooms. 
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Moose farts also cause globaloney. 
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05-01-2008, 09:50 AM
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Political Guru
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: The deep end of the gene pool
Posts: 781
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Storms of "hot air" generated by liberals is the greatest contributor to "global warming"....... no doubt
__________________
Definition of political correctness:
A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical liberal minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.
I'm politically incorrect and damn well satisfied to be so. Gummer
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05-01-2008, 10:01 AM
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Political Junkie
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 147
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Most people are egocentric - they are only concerned about things that affect them personally. They will only come to grips with the reality of global warming at the grocery store when they are fighting in the isles for the food on the shelves.
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05-01-2008, 10:09 AM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 10,108
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Quote:
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William Gray, the well-known Colorado State University hurricane forecaster, routinely uses the annual National Hurricane Conference as a platform to bash global warming. In a statement to Florida Today, Gray argued that the scientific consensus on global warming is bogus — and "a mild form of McCarthyism has developed toward those scientists who do not agree" that mankind is in danger.
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>>>Bogus or not, you need to believe (or at least convince people that you believe) that global warming is a problem in order to get elected anymore. Ask Bush. Ask Gingrich. Ask McCain.
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