It never ceases to amaze me how many folks on the extremes of either side scream about patriotism. It seams to me (though this is not the entirety of my definition) that to be a patriot, you must have allegiance to the founding principles and protected rights first, above all party affiliations and philosophies.

I just stopped in for the first time in several weeks to see what was going on in the forums, and much of what I'm seeing is, "liberal cocksucker this, and right-wing pig fucker that".

How does this advance the cause of patriotism?
How does this foster understanding of opposing views?
Unless you understand the opposing views, how can you effectively argue against them and thus change minds?

So... I'm interested in knowing what "page" everyone is on concerning this much used (apparently much misunderstood) term.

What is your (not the dictionary) definition of "Patriot"?

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S.O.S. ------ United We Stand, Divided We Fall

not occams razor.

In a way I think you are talking about trying to argue effectively and not patriotism.

Exactly Okhamsrazor, it's what I try to preach in many of my posts. The only way to have true objectivity is to understand both sides or many sides of any issue. I frequently embellish this by telling of my travels and living in 7 different countries for 12 years - that's perspective and I only gained a broader view of the world by experiencing it. It doesn't require travel but I've also been a conservative republican and a moderate and a liberal democrat. Now I'm not any of the 3 positions but I try to appraoch any issue on the facts and never with religious intent which by the way clouds the judgement. Truth is truth, facts are facts, the difficult part of any argument is getting to the truth, opinion is hard to get around and that's what sparks the name calling most times.

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You can't be a politican and be a true christian. Religion corrupts politics, separation of church & state, voting with religious intent is very wrong.

BEING A PATRIOT....IS THE ACT OF HONORING THOSE OF HISTORY...THAT ALLOWED US THE RIGHTS WE NOW ENJOY.

The fact that I was born here....in this particular country...does not make me any more human or less than one of another country.....But the fact of this happenstance of fate....allows me to help those people that are just as human and have the same God given right to freedom that I have....Being a true Patriot...is having empathy....first to your rights of birth...but also to others...not so lucky with their happenstance of birth....All are patriots of the human race.....and we all are brothers under one God...if not one country....This is why I defend my country of birth...of all the nations on earth...this nation remains the "ONLY" to bear witness of this fact of EMPATHY...by the facts of their actions...and not only with speech...but in deed.....A fact of history as the globe is dotted by our footprints of this happenstance of fate....any country which we touch bears witness to this fact of freedom and the right thereof.....A few nations that would not enjoy these freedoms as we speak....England...France...Germany....Russia....J apan...Spain...Poland.....the list goes on and on....Our Patriotism...is the result of our heart....not a happenstance of birth...as some like to point...out....for any...anywhere on this planet burns with this natural desire to be "FREE".......this is were true PATRIOTISM RESTS.....BD

Exactly. It is something that often talked about but seldom practiced by either political spectrum.

To argue effectively is to allow the opposition to see your view in an effective manner. They may stillnot agree with you, but they will respect you that much more IF you put forth an effective arguement (of course backed up with facts and not emotion).

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"A committee is a group of people who individually can do nothing but together can decide that nothing can be done."
Fred Allen

"A government that robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul."
George Bernard Shaw

"Politics is the art of choosing between the disastrous and the unpalatable."
John Galbraith

Pretty good post.

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"A committee is a group of people who individually can do nothing but together can decide that nothing can be done."
Fred Allen

"A government that robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul."
George Bernard Shaw

"Politics is the art of choosing between the disastrous and the unpalatable."
John Galbraith

He was pouting for a bit and left. Now that school is out he will be here for the summer.

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Standing on the corner,
Suitcase in my hand,
Jack is in his corset and Jane is in her vest,
And me, I'm in a Rock & Roll band.

Welcome back Okham! I have to log off , but great thread and will get back to this one later.

Nice post BD, thanx.

One question though, and I don't mean this to be naive as it seems,

but... "FREE" from what? of what?

I appreciate your noting that our rights are God given. No man has the authority to take them away.

This is the one underlying, unifying point of reference that all Americans should be able to agree on, regardless of political philosophy. Throughout history, it is more often the governments, not the roving hoards, invading armies, or terrorists that have threatened freedom and liberty and subjugated or killed it's subjects.

We The People are the power in this country, We protect the constitution. The government works for us, not special interests, not media outlets, not talk show hosts, not oil companies, not religion... US! It exists solely for the benefit and defense of the people. It DOES NOT AND NEVER DID PROTECT OUR RIGHTS... THAT"S YOUR JOB!!!!

okay, done ranting....

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S.O.S. ------ United We Stand, Divided We Fall