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  1. #1
    Tux's Avatar
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    Default There’s No Natural Right to Health Care

    Good article and right to the point of the fallacious "Health care is a right" argument coming from the left.

    Source: LewRockwell.com


    There’s No Natural Right to Health Care
    by Christopher Westley

    Back in the 1980s, a rock group called the Beastie Boys issued a single entitled You Gotta Fight for Your Right to Party. I was in college at the time. It was one of the seminal events that turned me away from popular music.

    No one remembers the Beastie Boys anymore, but the group’s misunderstanding of rights theory lives today, especially in the current health care debate. Take, for instance, the claim made by St. Vincent’s Health System Chief Executive John O’Neil to the Hoover (Alabama) Chamber of Commerce last week that uninsured Americans deserve 100 percent coverage of health care and that society’s inability to provide it creates monetary and human costs.

    "The uninsured," he said, "are driving up our health care costs because they oftentimes don’t seek care before it’s too late, or it’s so far into their disease process that it costs thousands or hundreds of thousands of dollars." He added that, in 2006, more than 18,000 Americans died "purely because they didn’t have health insurance."

    In responding to such arguments, it is hard to know where to start. Let’s first consider Mr. O’Neil’s concept of rights, which seems to be informed more by the Beastie Boys than a natural rights tradition developed over the centuries largely by the Church that sponsors St. Vincent’s. This tradition identifies two categories of rights, one that is consistent with a free and virtuous society, and another that sows division that, taken to the extreme, threatens civilization itself. The first of these identifies rights that are inherent in the human person and therefore precede governments. Governments cannot grant them. They can only take them away. Sometimes referred to as negative rights, they are only partially enumerated in the U.S. Constitution and especially in its first 10 amendments. These include your rights to your life, liberty, and property.

    Then there are other rights that no one is born with. In order to exercise these rights, individuals become claimants to the wealth and labor of others. Sometimes referred to as positive rights, these rights were not spelled out in the Constitution, which is silent on issues pertaining to education, housing, or even digital television. Nonetheless, the legitimization of these types of rights in the 20th century has contributed to the centralized and overweening welfare and warfare state that the federal government has become today.

    Mr. O’Neil proclaims such positive rights in the realm of health care, and it is not a new argument. Indeed, previous arguments along these lines justified government interventions that have increased costs and hindered a free market in health care so that, today, 75 percent of all health care spending in the United States comes from government. Note well: Individuals like Mr. O’Neil will gain personally if they are successful in extending this argument, even if this requires further threatening the well-being of those others who are forced to finance it.

    That’s what happens when a right demanded by Peter requires positive action by Paul.

    Consider as well the claim that 18,000 people died in 2006 "purely because they did not have health insurance." Really? It had nothing to do with (say) lifestyle choices, or a choice freely taken to spend money on goods other than insurance? This is a purely ridiculous statistic. It is sad state of affairs that it gets bandied about without the benefit of being fact-checked by a watchdog media.

    But much of the media, as well as health care systems, insurance companies, and federal government, have an incentive to frame the health care debate in ways that benefit them, and in this case it means whether the health care bill should incorporate a little socialism, or a lot. Left out are the economists – at least those disconnected from special interests – who have much to offer that would improve the health care system. These involve eliminating (i) all government licensing of the medical profession that exist primarily to restrict the supply of medical personnel (ii) insurance companies’ antitrust exemptions and allowing interstate coverage, and (iii) the deadly Food and Drug Administration that serves the interests of Big Pharma over those of the sick.

    None of these recommendations are likely in a political environment in which special interests receive the loot while the costs are socialized. From that perspective, what is considered health care "reform" today is nothing new. It will continue until citizens once again appreciate one of the natural rights listed in the Magna Carta – the right to be left alone.


    FULL ARTICLE ON ITS ORGINAL SITE HERE

  2. #2
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    how about the right not to be compelled to accept unwanted benefits?

    but then you joined the club didnt you?

    Now you are a victim of public "policy".

    Thats what everyone gets for letting those party corporate thugs take over. "policy" get it?

    BBWWHAHAHAHAHAHA

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    Therefore, the U.S. citizens residing in one of the states of the union, are classified as property and franchises of the feds as an "individual entity, Wheeling Steel Corp. v. Fox, 298 U.S. 193, 80 L.Ed. 1143, 56 S.Ct. 773

    State v. Manuel, 20 NC 122: "the term 'citizen' in the United States, is analogous to the term `subject' in common law; the change of phrase has resulted from the change in government."

    US CITIZEN = FEUDAL SUBJECT = SLAVE

  3. #3
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    The debate between the Natural Law School and the Utilitarian School is not yet resolved. I think the utilitarian school has some valid points, but I tend to subscribe the natural law view.

    I also believe that liberty is built off of negative freedom, not positive ones and that to achieve positive liberties requires a degree of coercion.

    Health care, like education, are built off of positive freedoms. While noble goals, that the government can botch up at times, they do go against the grain of liberty. Forcing someone else to take care of you and teach you is morally wrong.

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    you can say their is no natural right to life, as the baby seal is beaten to death for a coat, and mike vick rapes dogs before he fights them, and then kills them like a fucking animal it is...

  5. #5
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    Might (in the broad sense) makes for right.

    Such has always been the case, is the case and will continue to be the case.
    Vae Victus.
    Ascriber of Jahbulon.
    Amir of the Kufr Mujahideen.
    Man is something that must be overcome. ~ Nietzsche
    Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. ~ Winston Churchill

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magog View Post
    you can say their is no natural right to life, as the baby seal is beaten to death for a coat, and mike vick rapes dogs before he fights them, and then kills them like a fucking animal it is...
    You clearly don't understand natural right arguments and simply arguing against rhetoric. The Natural Rights school only concerns itself with humans, not seals or dogs.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by I Like Taxes View Post
    The debate between the Natural Law School and the Utilitarian School is not yet resolved. I think the utilitarian school has some valid points, but I tend to subscribe the natural law view.

    I also believe that liberty is built off of negative freedom, not positive ones and that to achieve positive liberties requires a degree of coercion.

    Health care, like education, are built off of positive freedoms. While noble goals, that the government can botch up at times, they do go against the grain of liberty. Forcing someone else to take care of you and teach you is morally wrong.
    well its not exactly negative law.

    its negative and positive codification.

    all statutes and legislation is not law, its positive codification which is in the form of "color of law".

    in general positive codification is itemized whereas negative codification is not.

    the king had negative codification we the people have negative codification and that can be seen in the 10th.

    any authority we did not specifically, (enumerated positive code), cede to the feds or states belongs to the people.

    So we can make up our rights as sovereigns as long as it does not violate the laws of the next guy.

    US Supreme Court:


    Therefore, the U.S. citizens residing in one of the states of the union, are classified as property and franchises of the feds as an "individual entity, Wheeling Steel Corp. v. Fox, 298 U.S. 193, 80 L.Ed. 1143, 56 S.Ct. 773

    State v. Manuel, 20 NC 122: "the term 'citizen' in the United States, is analogous to the term `subject' in common law; the change of phrase has resulted from the change in government."

    US CITIZEN = FEUDAL SUBJECT = SLAVE

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by KokomoJoJo View Post
    how about the right not to be compelled to accept unwanted benefits?

    but then you joined the club didnt you?
    Yeah I did, I got my membership card and everything....now feel free and take another shot of good ole' jack, because apparently you're not drunk enough to understand the content of the article I posted yet.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tux View Post
    Yeah I did, I got my membership card and everything....now feel free and take another shot of good ole' jack, because apparently you're not drunk enough to understand the content of the article I posted yet.

    the content of what you posted?



    I am not interested in what they do with that crap it will not effect me in any way as most of the crap the lefty rightees bicker about.

    My only concern is with what does affect me and that is law which is what I commented on.

    The law should be your concern as well and you did use the term "right", that is a claim under the law

    US Supreme Court:


    Therefore, the U.S. citizens residing in one of the states of the union, are classified as property and franchises of the feds as an "individual entity, Wheeling Steel Corp. v. Fox, 298 U.S. 193, 80 L.Ed. 1143, 56 S.Ct. 773

    State v. Manuel, 20 NC 122: "the term 'citizen' in the United States, is analogous to the term `subject' in common law; the change of phrase has resulted from the change in government."

    US CITIZEN = FEUDAL SUBJECT = SLAVE

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by KokomoJoJo View Post
    well its not exactly negative law.

    its negative and positive codification.

    all statutes and legislation is not law, its positive codification which is in the form of "color of law".

    in general positive codification is itemized whereas negative codification is not.

    the king had negative codification we the people have negative codification and that can be seen in the 10th.

    any authority we did not specifically, (enumerated positive code), cede to the feds or states belongs to the people.

    So we can make up our rights as sovereigns as long as it does not violate the laws of the next guy.
    I don't fully understand what you are trying to say. I understand the 10th Amendment, which actually allows for positive liberties to be enforced.

    Education and Health care can be enforced on the state level. In fact, I would probably vote for them (depending on the particular legislation), but I am weary of it on the national level. The 10th was placed their to promote bottoms up democracy and prevent the accumulation of power in a central and distant government.

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