Thread: The really asinine thing about liberals lying about not covering illegals

Originally Posted by TouristDudeKevin

We'd just end up with the same complaint we have now that too many people are using the ER without health insurance.

In fact I would argue that many of our immigration laws cause more problems than they solve. For example, people need social security numbers to work. Illegal aliens can't get them, so they use fake or stolen ones, which opens them up to exploitation because their employers know they can be blackmailed, and unfair competition with locals since their work is now underpaid.

Giving them valid ID would:
a) allow their competition in the workforce to be fair
b) allow their employers and them to be properly taxed and pay into the system
c) allow us to properly identify everyone in the country

I disagree with all of your points 110%.

If you give illegals legal IDs, they are no longer illegal. Here's a new thought for you. Instead of making new laws, just enforce the ones that are on the books now. It is currently illegal to be in the US without permission of the government. Enforce that to start with!

Originally Posted by TouristDudeKevin

Giving them valid ID would:
a) allow their competition in the workforce to be fair

They shouldn't be competing with Americans in the workforce, so how can it be fair?

Originally Posted by TouristDudeKevin

b) allow their employers and them to be properly taxed and pay into the system

They should all be on a bus back to Tijuana. They don't need to "pay into the system" if they are where they belong.

Originally Posted by TouristDudeKevin

c) allow us to properly identify everyone in the country

If they are properly identified, then they should immediately be put on a bus back to Tijuana. No ID needed.

Originally Posted by TouristDudeKevin

We'd just end up with the same complaint we have now that too many people are using the ER without health insurance.

In fact I would argue that many of our immigration laws cause more problems than they solve. For example, people need social security numbers to work. Illegal aliens can't get them, so they use fake or stolen ones, which opens them up to exploitation because their employers know they can be blackmailed, and unfair competition with locals since their work is now underpaid.

Giving them valid ID would:
a) allow their competition in the workforce to be fair
b) allow their employers and them to be properly taxed and pay into the system
c) allow us to properly identify everyone in the country

Uh, Helloooo.... They don't belong here AT ALL. Throw them the fuck out immediately and the problem is solved. Use the "Stimulus" money to ship these parasites out and I guarantee that the vast majority of the country would rejoice.

Michelle Malkin Obamacare for illegal aliens, revisited


“Democrats can keep claiming all they want that illegal immigrants will not be covered in this bill. But their actions speak louder than their words. Democrats have rejected opportunities to close the gaping loopholes in this health care bill that will allow illegal immigrants to participate.
“If President Obama is committed to ensuring that illegal immigrants do not benefit from the bill – as he says he is – why not include the same verification mechanisms in this bill as already exist for other federal benefits programs?
“What’s more, the bill contains no provisions preventing illegal immigrants from participating in the Health Insurance Exchange that is to be created, including the government-run “public plan” that will be available through the federally-run and federally-subsidized Exchange. This is in direct conflict with the President’s claim that illegal immigrants will not be insured under his plan.
“The American people are more intelligent than the President gives them credit for. They understand that simply saying illegal immigrants can’t participate without providing verification is like putting a speed-limit sign on a road, then setting a policy that prohibits police from patrolling the road; it won’t stop speeders, and this bill won’t stop illegal immigrants from benefitting.”
BACKGROUND: IMMIGRATION LOOPHOLES IN HR 3200
Open access to Insurance Exchange: HR 3200 contains no provisions preventing illegal immigrants from participating in the Health Insurance Exchange that is to be created, including the government-run “public plan” that will be available through the federally-run and federally-subsidized Exchange.
According to CRS: “Under H.R. 3200, a ‘Health Insurance Exchange’ would begin operation in 2013 and would offer private plans alongside a public option…H.R. 3200 does not contain any restrictions on noncitzens—whether legally or illegally present, or in the United States temporarily or permanently—participating in the Exchange.”
No verification mechanism: Democrats point to language in the House bill that says illegal immigrants cannot get benefits. While that may be technically accurate, it is far from the truth.
The fact is that the statement is meaningless because the bill contains no verification mechanism to ensure that illegal immigrants do not receive benefits. Democrats defeated amendments in two congressional committees to close this loophole, including amendments that would use the very same verification mechanism that already exist in statute for other federal programs. Why not include the same verification mechanisms in this bill as already exist for other federal benefits programs? Without the requirement that there be a verification mechanism or a specific verification mechanism provided in statute, the Commissioner could determine that the eligibility requirements could be met either without verification or with as little as a signed attestation.
According to CRS: “Some have expressed concerns that since H.R. 3200 does not contain a mechanism to verify immigration status, the prohibitions on certain noncitizens (e.g, nonimmigrants and unauthorized aliens) receiving the credits may not be enforced. However, others note that under §142(a)(3) of the bill, it is the responsibility of the Health Choices Commissioner (Commissioner) to administer the “individual affordability credits under subtitle C of title II, including determination of eligibility for such credits.”

Originally Posted by Fraulein Hilda

is that they want to cover them.

You do have a difficult time grasping the fact that American Emergency rooms take on anyone that comes through there doors including the millions of Americans that do not have coverage. Also they now take the recent unemployed that can't afford COBRA.

It is interesting that the 40 countries that have universal coverage are more interest in treating the patient and it is also a fact that those countries residents have a longer life span than Americans.

Originally Posted by mike15

It is interesting that the 40 countries that have universal coverage are more interest in treating the patient and it is also a fact that those countries residents have a longer life span than Americans.

And this is the BIGGEST bullshit argument yet. Every single country that has socialized medicine in any form are continuously faced with lack of budget, increasing wait times for treatment, people dying of curable diseases, lack of decent health care, shortage of medical personnel, disgruntled patients and utter frustration by the population. These countries cannot afford to take that much of an interest in patient care because behind the current patient is 60 or 70 others.

Originally Posted by phxcon

And this is the BIGGEST bullshit argument yet. Every single country that has socialized medicine in any form are continuously faced with lack of budget, increasing wait times for treatment, people dying of curable diseases, lack of decent health care, shortage of medical personnel, disgruntled patients and utter frustration by the population. These countries cannot afford to take that much of an interest in patient care because behind the current patient is 60 or 70 others.

NOW THAT IS SERIOUS BULLSHIT!

Originally Posted by mike15

NOW THAT IS SERIOUS BULLSHIT!

Read the foreign newspapers, you idiot. The complaints are rampant and getting worse.

Originally Posted by Fraulein Hilda

is that they want to cover them.

The only reason they point out that it's not int he bill now is because thery are certain tahtn within hours of it being passed someone will get Federal judge to say healthcare must be provided to everyone including illegals.

It's similar to the abortion thing. Instead of addressing the issue of the government not paying for abortions--like what was done for Medicad-- they delivertleyleave it out...and then leave it up to a Federal judge.