Okay.. that's amusing..
You are know looking at my credentials of reading and actually being informed..
and insinuating that THAT makes me elitist?
That, my friend is an example of the rhetorical war going on.
First, by implying that reading books is a suspect act..
You are appealing to a reader's similar response;
that the preferred way for people is as untouched by other's biases..
There is a discipline that criticizes virtually any
historical perspective that DOESN'T attack civilization
as an elitist attack on human feelings.
THAT is Marxist philosophy as expressed in America.
Dialectical Criticism and etc.
YOU may not have heard of that, and you may not
have read Fehrenbach, or Rand, or Kennedy,
or Von Mises, or Von Hayek..
( I looked in second hand book stores, and found the non-preached.. the sidelined and ignored. )
but I went to Queens College.. and my family does not hand out
trust fund silver spoons..
Like the Kennedy's, Ford's and the REAL aristocratic elite.
.. Obviously a clumsy shot.. I have a very different and objective
perspective than Ward Churchill and Sami AlArian..
actual academic leftist elitist America haters.

I bring up enough points for any intelligent person to deal with.
Certainly most of us feel competent to criticize our elected officials
when it comes to important issues.
Is it too much to expect you to step up and measure up?
Or are you the product of a subjective range-of-the-moment
do-what feels-good,-RIGHT-NOW mentality?
Is THAT the way Americans were raised fifty years ago?
Maybe there was a change?
Maybe we should reconsider and discuss why we are so different from our great-grandparents?
Maybe we should do a little bit of national re-examination.
After all pacifism and legalistic picayune arguments will NOT make us stronger..

GIXAHOLIC, why do Rabid Conservatives have such a hard time to admit when then their incompetent GOP leaders are WRONG! Critical thinking Repub. know Bush is a Miserable Failure as President and GW has never earned a dam thing in his drug induced life---Everything was handed too him; from his Yale education to the supreme court giving him the Presidency and annoiting GW 'KING GEORGE".

Make no mistake GW Bush's Administration will go down as one the most corrupt Presidency's in recent memory. The Presidential Historians will lay out all the facts for America and the World to review. However, since rapbid conservatives such as yourself hate to engage in critical thinking, you and your robotic christian taliban followers will either biasely debunk or character assasinate the truth of history.

When you never have to work for anything in life and you are born with silver boot in your mouth (Curious Georgey), you tend to become lazy and insolent, devious, sneeky, non-caring, immature, and un-accountable for anything or anyone who does not blieve your views.

Giaholic, you can smear and berate liberalism all you want; but when the dust all settles you must still deal with and accept the pure unadultrated fact---these neo-cons rethuglicans you so blindly follow by choice are corrupt and terroristic in there own right. Talking about calling the Kettle Black!!!

Oh yeah..
This is clear and respectable discourse.
Try to be more than a repeater of propaganda..

Why waste time in destroying all that?
The narrow perspective is reminiscent of many conversations
I have with adolescents and other immaturities.
Just what exactly animates your bias, sonny?

GIXAHOLIC, why do Rabid Conservatives have such a hard time to admit when then their incompetent GOP leaders are WRONG! Critical thinking Repub. know Bush is a Miserable Failure as President and GW has never earned a dam thing in his drug induced life---Everything was handed too him; from his Yale education to the supreme court giving him the Presidency and anointing GW 'KING GEORGE".

Make no mistake GW Bush's Administration will go down as one the most corrupt Presidency's in recent memory. The Presidential Historians will lay out all the facts for America and the World to review. However, since rabid conservatives such as yourself hate to engage in critical thinking, you and your robotic Christian tali ban followers will either biasely debunk or character assassinate the truth of history.

When you never have to work for anything in life and you are born with silver boot in your mouth (Curious Georgie), you tend to become lazy and insolent, devious, sneaky, non-caring, immature, and UN-accountable for anything or anyone who does not believe your views.

Bush is the Merchant of Death. Heres a fact, when Bush was a kid a past time he use do enjoy was "sticking fire crackers up the AZZ of frogs--throwing them up in air and watching them EXPLODE!!! Yeah thats normal adolescent behavior isn't.

While Governor of Texas, he fired up the electric chair and kept it running at an alarming rate. He Gleefully presided over the first women executed in Texas and even mocked her when she pleaded to him for clemency.

Bush chose war over containment in Iraq. Sent our service members to die in Iraq, yet when he had a chance to serve in NAM--his father pulled strings and got Bush into a Cherry Guard unit never slated to deploy to NAM. Bush's White House is full of CHICKEN HAWKS!!! These cowards could have served in NAM, but chose not too---like 5 time deferment Cheney. Yet these Bastards sends America's sons and daughters into the killing fields of Iraq, with no end in sight. Rabid robotic conservatives (Gixaholic) will continue to blindly follow, make excuses for, and over rationalize the incompetencies of the Bush Crime Family; while staying loyal to their party and not their COUNTRY; you guys are truly UN-Patriotic and traitors to the Constitution.

Giaholic, you can smear and berate liberalism all you want; but when the dust all settles you must still deal with and accept the pure unadulterated fact---these Neo-Con Rethuglicans you so blindly follow by choice are corrupt and terroristic in there own right!!!!! Talking about calling the Kettle Black!!!

sorry Gix, let me field this one..


The current administration is pursuing a policy against terrorist revolutionaries
that used the same Intel that ALL DC leaders have had for thirty years. The CIA et al have been a bipartisan source of policy for both the democrats and the republicans.
The Clinton's, Kerry, McCain, AND Bush factions came to the same conclusions as the British, UN, French, German, and Russian ones did;
The Islamo-fascist dangers in the mid-east,
including Iraq's Hussein regime were an accepted fact
and had to be dealt with.
UN CORRUPTION ( the Food for Oil program, 10 BILLION!!!, right?)
was enabled by the Clinton adminstration, right?
Clinton was a public anti-war activist who "loathed" the military, and the rest of the democrat party leadership also has a record of attacking American autony and aggressive defense.
He also never held a job that wasn't tax-payer funded. Nor are democrat leaders from especially hard-working backgrounds.
Pelosi's husband has millions in ChiCom investments, right?


Christian Taliban, huh? Let's see, during the Clinton administration.. the Taliban actually demolished a mountain of Buddhist sculpture
that stood for millenia. What was Clinton's response?
He made the US policy against the fanatics there.
But his actions were less than decisive.
One might say compromisingly INCOMPETENT.
After all, he had two terms to deal with the FIRST WTC bombers, right?

And of course, the explicit and actual social preaching and violence by our avowed enemies is irrelevant. The actual deaths
..the genocide committed by "human" factions
all over the world ( usually Islamic cults, right?)
happened during Clintons , and Reagans,
and Carters administrations too, right?
During Clintons admin.. he attacked and burned out a NON-radical christian cult.. the Islamo-fascist STILL actively attack innocent people.
Who are Death-dealers?


.. Still whining about losing an election?
Or merely replaying a web sites propaganda?
When you get upset over Kennedy traitor trust fund,
THEN you can claim objective patriotism.

And it was being dealt with. Desert Fox was an attack on Iraq that Clinton initiated in relatiation for ousting the UNSCOM inspectors.

He signed the Republican measure for Regime Change that said (paraphrasing, but I have provided the link to this document on another thread) This country will do everything in it's power to force regime change in Iraq, SHORT of military intervention. The use of our armed forces to accomplish this task is not to even be brought up for discussion. The only way we will use our military in support of this policy is in the case that the Iraqis themselves launch a bid to overthrow him.

As far as the "same intel" being used, this had been shown to be false on numerous threads here and is a matter of public record.

Aside from the Oil for Food scandal (which was a UN debacle alone) what does the rest of this paragraph have to so with anything being discussed here? This is why so many of us view you as being skewed.

Who cares? The Taliban killed people in soccer stadiums for entertainment, and you choose Buddist Statuary as your point of outrage? Sure it sucks, but...

Again, the FIRST WTC bombings were carried out with the full knowledge and blessing of the FBI under the guise of a "sting operation". It was dealt with, we sent the conspirators to jail and slapped the FBI on the wrist. This also is a matter of public record that requires no partisan interpretation.

Once again.. pointing to past mistakes is no defense of current ones, especially on this scale.



Kennedy traitor trust fund? what the hell are you talking about now, and how in the world is that the benchmark for objective patriotism. And you wonder why you have been labeled "skewed". LMAO

__________________
S.O.S. ------ United We Stand, Divided We Fall

Look my family is Muslim and it is so hard to hear this non sense from people I feel to be educated or bright. Islam is a very old testament religion, but don't forget christianity is horribly warring as well. Reformed christianity comes from Luther and Calvin right. Has anyone ever read the book [u]On the Jews and their Lies[u] Martin Luther put that one out. With a passive policy Christian nations allowed to holocaust to happen. After they got sympathy the Jews inflicted their own holocaust. Simply look at Palestine the number of features it has in common with Auschwitz, Treblinka, and the rest are staggering. Its not a religion that does it. It is people and by labeling like everyone does here ie. I hate democrats, rethuglican, terrorists by doing all this nonsense we simply perpetuate it. Case in point right here. In this forum how many times do you see people attacking others instead of learned political debate which is what it should be. Everyone is convinced they are correct and that makes it impossible to learn. The convinced only assert. Please be more open and debate policy makers by name not label.

You underestimate our collective stupidity and lack of critical thinking skills

This is to make me laugh..
Try to not show your lack of objectivity by calling republicans, "thuglicans"..
.. Try not to be such an obvious hypocrite by asking for sympathy
and earning NOTHING. If you were honest Umma, you would acknowledge that FIVE centuries have passed since Christian reformation...
and Christianity has OBVIOUSLY undergone great changes..
While your own religion DOES often prescribe barbaric and explicit punishments for crimes committed by others.
Do you deny that sharia law punishes a woman for lack of purity, regardless of the perpetrator?
Do you deny that Islamixc law holds family responsible for social stigma ?
Has the American muslim population made an outcry concerning standard hamadras teachings concerning Islams intolerance towards non-islamics?
Aren't they STILL referred to as infidels inside your muslim schools?
Come on, now be honest..
The Muslim people I have talked to are far more honest and loyal than you all.
Really, The Palestinians are the victims here?
Hmm,. When they reject their long held allegiance for virulent and evil anti-jewish demagogues( like their own clerics ) AND Hitler
( yeah, Hitler is still admired throughout the Mid east..
Or were you unaware?
Or are the firsthand accounts, and photographs I've seen propaganda?
But lets get back ..
Where is this deathcamp of the jews?
..Last time I checked Martin Luther ( barbaric 14th century european that he was).. made the case that the church had to be bloodily deposed.
So.. when will you intelligent, bold, and noble Umma
actually stand up and remove the bloody warlord tribal parasites who are bleeding and starving your own people?
After all... if you can reap the benefits of a western philosophy that begat a superior economic and social civilization..
Maybe you would want to be the ones who pay the dues and make YOUR part of the human experience a more modern and civilized one..
Or are you going to say that Islam is okay because it tolerates riots that end up killing standaround innocents,..
because there was a beauty contest happening.
( oh, you don't recall? In Nigeria they rioted when the Miss World contest was going on.. The riots actually killed some people.. In the name of this loving tolerant spirituality, right?)
( Islam was the religion that gave us the Armenian genocide, right?)

See this can go on for a while..
In the West, a racist like David Duke rises..
And no one joins him..
No republicans.
In Islamic elitist power circles, do ANY voice moderation?
In Islamic religious schools, just what moral code is taught there? traditional Islamic ones or the values of the especial country that Hamadras is in?
Are there any strong factions that are demanding a civilized behaviour from their fellow Umma?
NO!
They are all supporting and aiding and abetting the consistent and not articulated xenophobic values.
Be honest, and examine your own religions provincial fear of foreigners.
it is not the West that must leave you alone..
it is the recalcitrant fourteenth century social structure that must be thrown off..
Or do you really see ANY Islamic sect that actually preaches an amicable resolution of the tensions?