Originally Posted by steve k

Cat's Meow:

As far as Bush being a "uniter" as someone refered to it takes two people to shake hands, not one. Bush had a good record in Texas as Governor of bringing opposites to the table. I had heard this from Democrats that he had to deal with so it's not as though he hadn't done that before. I don't think he was prepared for the malice and backstabbing that occurs in DC. Maybe he didn't believe it or maybe he thought he'd be able to do what he did in Texas-just on a bigger stage.

However, when anyone (I don't care who) is passionate and takes a stand on something (in this case the war in Iraq) that effects people's lives there is going to be debate. There will be conflict and there will be rancor. A leader is someone who defies the critics and moves forward because of a value and a belief system, not by popularity or polls as we've learned from other past Presidents. I miss that George Bush because I don't think we've seen him for quite a number of years. I'm talking about the bush who stood on a pile of rubble in New York with a megaphone. That was the defining moment of his Presidency and that was what a lot of us wanted to hear. It wasn't scripted. It was real and that's what made it legit. Maybe he's tired or whatever, I don't know. But I always find it interesting that liberals will call Bush "Hitler", "a lying bastard", "a baby killer", "the biggest terrorist in the world", "responsible for 9/11" and all of this kind of stuff and yet it is he who is the divider. It's kind of the idea that someone like Jesse Jackson is going to tell me about racism when he in fact is a racist himself. I've heard Democratic Senator's say some just outrageous things about our troops and yet Bush is a "divider". So, you know it works both ways. Whatever you want to say about him (and there is quite a lot) I have yet to hear him get personal with someone and I have yet to hear him make inflammatory remarks about our soldiers. That kind of nonsense I leave to the Democrats because they've earned it.

Originally Posted by cat's meow

I sit on the left and I don't use those terms for Bush.

I was living in Texas when he was Gov and did follow what he did, especially with the fact I lived int he state capitol, Austin (unavoidable, he was on the new every other night practically). My motto in 2000 was "Fine for Texas but bad for the US" and I think I was right in the end. I base this fact on the way he seemed to take more of the responsibility and understood better the state of Texas (his professional life had almost exclusively been spent in that state). He allowed too many people who are Neo Con insiders to do his thinking for him when arriving in Washington D.C. He can say UNITER all he wants but that never came to fruition and right after he was elected president that transfered to "we have mandate."

One of the most telling moments of Bush and what he ACTUALLY does is the 2004 debates where Kerry just floored him in the first one, it was clearly evident Bush was 'on his own for that one' and Rove (et al) did not give him talking points, a script. Once that is was gvien to him (and they did do that) then in the next debate he baceme laser focused on saying only a certain amount of things and he looked better. He has been this way for a long time and is a salesman that has a good company line, that is what GWB has done for a living for a long time.

Originally Posted by im4usa

The will of the American people, clearly despite a fairly good-sized amount of evangelical numbskulls, is a return to the fiscal responsibility, relative peace and economic expansion of the Clinton years. I know, I can already hear the neoconderthals shrieking "But he lied! He's a liar! He let a chubby girl go down on him. And even though we investigated the living crap out of him and found no evidence to indict, we KNOW he killed Vince Foster and betrayed Jesus to the Romans." And you're guy lied about stuff that has cost the lives of 3,000 Americans and, conservatively, tens of thousands of Iraqis, has mortgaged our children's future to pay for tax cuts for his rich buddies, turned his back while his business friends have accelerated their attempts to make the Earth unlivable, increased the liklihood of terrorist attacks on Americans, angered former international allies with his arrogant unilateralism, weakened the wall between church and state and trampled on the Constitutional civil liberties we have fought valid wars for by turning the executive and judicial branches in our Big Brothers. But he's better than Clinton, right?

Originally Posted by im4usa

He only looked better during the second debate because he didn't actually say anything or answer the questions asked of him - one of the things I hate about debates is that the moderators never insist on an answer for the question asked. Bush, and I'm sorry if you find this too vitriolic, is so far from being qualified intellectually or idealistically for this office it would make me ashamed, except that America finally seems to have woken up (at least, a slim majority is now awake and thinking).

Originally Posted by steve k

Your predictable claims of "Bush lied, people died" is boring, exhausted and unworthy of any further response.

Originally Posted by im4usa

He only looked better during the second debate because he didn't actually say anything or answer the questions asked of him - one of the things I hate about debates is that the moderators never insist on an answer for the question asked. Bush, and I'm sorry if you find this too vitriolic, is so far from being qualified intellectually or idealistically for this office it would make me ashamed, except that America finally seems to have woken up (at least, a slim majority is now awake and thinking).

Originally Posted by Skinny Fatts

It's too bad the only two guys on earth who could make him look smart ran against him. They were both elitist snobs. I hope the dems run somebody with a modicum of intelligence and some connection with real people.

Originally Posted by rob

Skinny, do you suggest that the Democrats have somebody to run that can connect with the average working joe?

Originally Posted by steve k

Your predictable claims of "Bush lied, people died" is boring, exhausted and unworthy of any further response.