Thread: A War Hero??? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!

Hero. What does it mean to be one? Here is the definition of a hero:

1. a man of distinguished courage or ability, admired for his brave deeds and noble qualities.

2. a person who, in the opinion of others, has heroic qualities or has performed a heroic act and is regarded as a model or ideal: He was a local hero when he saved the drowning child.

It's time take to take a good look at John McCain's time in the Navy. My case is that McCain is not a hero at all, but an accidental bumbler with bad luck.

John McCain at the Naval Academy
"When I was growing up," McCain says, "it was expected I was going to go to the Naval Academy. It was just one of those things. I can remember as a little kid friends of my dad saying, 'Well, what class is he going to be?'"

John McCain's time at Annapolis is not indicative of a person who was a hard working acheiver, but rather a prime example of a protected elitist playboy admitted by family legacy. An article in from the May 1st 2007 Arizona Republic illustrates that John McCain knew his family history very well and had no problem using it to his advantage:

It's 1955 in Annapolis, Md., and Midshipman John McCain and his roommate, Frank Gamboa, are eating lunch at the mess hall at the U.S. Naval Academy. A first classman, a "firstie" in Navy parlance, begins dressing down a Filipino steward.

Gamboa hardly notices this exchange, but young John McCain is paying close attention. Since the steward is an enlisted man, he cannot fight back. The firstie is being a bully, a no-no at the Naval Academy.

The man outranks everyone at the table. McCain and Gamboa are barely past being plebes, the school's lowest rank. Fearing trouble, other underclassmen eat quickly and leave. The browbeating continues.

Finally, McCain can take no more.
"Hey, why don't you pick on someone your own size?" McCain blurts out.

There is a moment of silent shock at the table.

"What did you say?" replies the firstie.
"Why don't you stop picking on him?" McCain says. "He's doing the best he can."

"What is your name, mister?" snaps the firstie, an open threat to put McCain on report.

"Midshipman John McCain the Third," McCain says, looking straight at the upperclassman. "What's yours?"

The firstie saw the look in McCain's eyes. And fled.

While its great that McCain stood up for the filipino man, it wasn't any act of bravery that distinguished him in this event. There was no invitation to meet at a secret pre-arranged location to settle the differences like men. John McCain threw his daddy's name and rank at the first opportunity.

Does this sound like a man of courage to you?

A hero?

John McCain's years at the Naval Academy were undistinguished. He graduted 894 of 899 which both he and his biographers attribute to a lack of effort rather than lack of ability. His prime focus was the ladies.

Note: Being a ladies man myself, I'm not holding this against him)

But he had no problem using his status as a big man on campus to game the system to the detriment of others:

McCain's bio in the academy yearbook said it all:

"Sturdy conversationalist and party man. John's quick wit and clever sarcasm made him a welcome man at any gathering. His bouts with the academic and executive departments contributed much to the stockpiles of legends within the hall."

One such bout almost ended in disaster.

The further cadets rose in the academy, the fewer demerits they were allowed. Naturally, McCain was pushing the limit as his senior year neared an end.

McCain already had been skirting the rules. He and some friends had bought a television, which was prohibited. They would gather in their rooms on weekends, watching boxing on Friday nights and a Western, Maverick, on Sundays. The men kept the TV hidden in a "pipe locker," a space between the dormitory rooms that housed plumbing, heating and ventilation.


"One day, the company officer got to crawling around in there, and he found the TV," Gamboa said.

Normally, all the men involved would play a game similar to paper, rock, scissors to determine who would get the demerits. But Gamboa and the others wouldn't let McCain take the chance. The 30 demerits from the TV would get him kicked out.

"He wanted to, but we just insisted," Gamboa said. "The guy who took the demerits (a model midshipman named Henry Vargo) had none."

John McCain allowed a fellow midshipman to be held accountable for his bad luck. Thirty demerits away from being expelled, he had no problem blemishing another midshipman's spotless record so that he could graduate.

Is the action of a hero?

There is a good reason for those of generous spirit to excuse this sort of behavior as "boys will be boys." I agree. I've got my share of Marine Corps stories similar to McCain's. However, I also know that I was in no way senior officer material, much less Commander in Chief material. McCain, however, comes from a distingished family of Admirals. He, of course, felt he should follow in his father's and grandfather's footsteps and become an admiral. From McCain's book: Worth the Fighting For

"Several months before my father died, I informed him that I was leaving the navy. I am sure he had already gotten word of my decision from friends in the Pentagon. I had been summoned to see the CNO, Admiral Heyward, who told me that I was making a mistake.... His attempt to dissuade me encouraged me to believe that I might have made admiral had I had been in the navy, a prospect that remained an open question in my mind.... Some of my navy friends believed I could still earn my star; others doubted it.... When I told my father of my intention, he did not remonstrate with me.... But I knew him well enough to know that he was disappointed. For when I left him that day, alone in his study, I took with me his hope that I might someday become the first son and grandson of four-star admirals to achieve the same distinction. That aspiration was well beyond my reach by the time I made my decision...."

Why was it that McCain understood that he would never make Admiral? First, understand that the under the rule at the time, a fighter pilot could become commander of an aircraft carrier. John McCain was a naval aviator. But was he a good one? Was he good enough of an aviator to make Admiral? What would make McCain forswear his family legacy, the very thing that had been a given, from his childhood growing up around the corridors of power in Washington, D.C.?

The answer is very simple: John McCain was a failure in the Vietnam war.

His collaboration with the Vietnamese made him unfit to be a commander, and what little we do know of his record (its a closely held secret – remember Admiral daddy and grand pappy) seems to indicate someone you wouldn't even want to put in charge of a toaster oven, much less an aircraft carrier, and certainly not nuclear weapons as President of the United States.

]John McCain at war.

From Jeffery Klein's excellent article on McCain:

Retired Admiral Peter Booth, who was promoted to rear admiral in 1981, flatly disputes Lehman's claim about McCain. "No, John McCain was not selected for flag rank, for admiral. With all due respect, I think I was selected that same year, and I have never heard anything even remotely like that. To begin with, John Lehman did not select Navy flag officers. That was done with a very august selection board headed by a four-star admiral. The Secretary of the Navy does not appoint. He is in the approval chain, but he is not on the committee.

"I have never heard a story, even remotely, that John McCain was going to be a flag officer. I was early selected for captain, in 1976, and I was regular selected for admiral in 1981. So it's probably five or six years, I guess. I've never heard of anybody being selected for flag rank within three or four years of making captain, ever."

After finishing flight school in Pensacola, where he crashed five planes, John McCain was assigned to the carrier USS Forrestal. I'm sure many of you know the story of the Forrestal Fire so I will not rehash it here. Some feel John McCain was responsible for the fire that killed 134 sailors, but many who were there do not. I wont get into the details of that, because I believe it would have had no bearing on John McCain being promoted or not. Officialdom ruled it an accident at the time.

However, John McCain's record as a pilot was undistinguished:

McCain had roughly 20 hours in combat," explains Bill Bell, a veteran of Vietnam and chief of the U.S. Office for POW/MIA Affairs -- the first official U.S. representative in Vietnam since the 1973 fall of Saigon. "Since McCain got 28 medals," Bell continues, "that equals out to about a medal-and-a-half for each hour he spent in combat. There were infantry guys -- grunts on the ground -- who had more than 7,000 hours in combat and I can tell you that there were times and situations where I'm sure a prison cell would have looked pretty good to them by comparison. The question really is how many guys got that number of medals for not being shot down."

From what we know, John McCain had no air-to-air kills because John McCain was not a dogfighter. He was an attack bomber, which is why he flew an A4 Skyhawk also known as the "Tinker Toy Bomber." (The only air-to-air kill ever perfomed in an an A4 was by LCDR Theodore Swartz in 1967 when killed a MiG-17) John McCain's job was to fly over Vietnam, bomb it, and go back to the carrier. That is as close McCain ever came to combat, thousands of feet in the air.

John McCain was assigned to the Forrestal in December of 1966. The Forrestal fire occured July 29th, 1967. John McCain was re-assigned to the nearby USS Oriskany, which was providing assistance during the fire. On October 26th, John McCain was shot down over Vietname by anti-aircraft fire. Now stop for a minute. What has occurred here so far that merits being called a war hero? So far, all we have is a low-ranked naval graduate who crashed planes during training, thus was assigned bombing missions of low rank, was involved in or caused a major fire that killed [/font][FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']134 seamen and destroyed 21 aircraft[/font][FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'], flew a total of 23 missions, and was shot down just three months later.

If this is what it takes to be a hero, then Audie Murphymust be Zeus!

But as we all know, John McCain claim to be a hero rest not on some act of courage or daring in combat. It rests not on some act of extraordinary valor under challenging conditions. Nor does it rest on sacrificing his life in aid of fellow comrades. John McCains claim to heroism is completely tied to his surviving capture as a prisoner of war. Of course, McCain was not captured because of a well-organized ambush by a determined enemy. Nor was we captured because of the failure of his superiors to adequately plan, train, and supply him to accomplish his goal. John McCain was captured because he FAILED TO ACCOMPLISH HIS MISSION.
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']McCain lost a fifth plane three months later (Oct. 26, 1967) during his 23rd mission over North Vietnam when he failed to avoid a surface-to-air missile. McCain III ejected from the plane breaking both arms and a leg in the process and subsequently parachuted into Truc Bach Lake near Hanoi.

During the war, 362 A-4/TA-4F Skyhawks were lost to all causes. The US Navy lost 271 A-4s, the US Marine Corps lost 81 A-4s and ten TA-4Fs. A total of 32 A-4s were lost to surface-to-air missiles (SAMs), and one A-4 was lost in aerial combat to a MiG-17 on 25 April 1967.

October 1967 was a particularly tough month for attack bombers. The Vietnamese had intruduced the Soviet SA-2 SAM in 1965 and over the next two years used them with increasing intensity:

The potential SAM threat grew as the North Vietnamese incorporated more missiles into their inventory. North Vietnamese SAM battalions increased from one in 1965 to 25 the next year, to 30 in 1967, and to 35-40 in 1968. This growth in units permitted the North Vietnamese to increase their missile firings from 30 per month in the first 11 months of operation to 270 per month between July 1966 and October 1967. The latter month, with between 590 and 740 SAMs fired, was the peak month of firing until the Linebacker II operations of 1972. From October 1967 to the bombing halt on 1 April 1968, SAM firings averaged 220 per month. During this period, the American airmen observed 5,366-6,037 SAMs, which downed 115-128 aircraft.

Keep in mind, John McCain was shot down during the heaviest month for SAM activity. Keep also in mind that this was his 23rd mission during the stretch from August to October 1967, engaging this mission from the USS Orskany. There were 32 A4 Skyhawks downed by SAMs during the war. Most of the A4s lost to SAMs were by the Marine Corps providing close air support to ground troops, flying at low altitudes. Most of the A4's lost to SAMs, occurred before the heavy barrage of October 1968.

Why?

Because the smart pilots learned to spot and avoid them:

Despite the increase in SAM firings, their direct effectiveness declined. In 1965 it took almost 18 SAMs to down each American aircraft, a figure that rose to 35 in 1966, to 57 in 1967, and to 107 in 1968. A number of factors contributed to this decline.

The airmen quickly learned that the SA-2 could be outmaneuvered. The Soviets designed the SA-2 to destroy highflying, non-maneuvering, strategic bombers; but until 1972 it engaged primarily low-flying, very maneuverable, tactical fighters. On clear days, alert airmen could spot SA-2 launches as the missile was large, described by most flyers as a flying telephone pole, and left a visible smoke trail.

The pilots would rapidly dive toward the missile, and when it changed direction to follow the aircraft, the pilot would pull up as abruptly and as sharply as possible.

The SA-2 just could not follow such maneuvers. But such action required sufficient warning, proper timing, and, of course, nerve and skill. To give pilots adequate time to maneuver, procedures prohibited the pilots from flying too close to clouds between them and the ground. Later, the airmen received electronic devices that gave a visual and aural warning when a SAM radar was tracking (painting) an aircraft.

Other countermeasres were taken which you can read and reserch yourself, starting here. The point is that an adept and capable pilot, with skill and discipline, could evade SA-2 fire and accomplish his mission. Of course, not everyone could. Not everyone was that good. Not everyone can be a hero. I wont get into him breaking his legs upon ejection.

John McCain. My opinion.

I'm skipping over John McCain's time as a POW because it was been well documented, both by him and by people who considered him a songbird for his collaboration with the Vietnamese. Needless to say, the continued torture by the Vietnamese broke McCain's will, as it would any but the most superhuman of men. I don't fault him for talking or collaborating. He did what he had to do to survive.

My question is, where did the heroism occur here?

Does being captured and then identifying with your captors constitute heroism?

Not in my book.

A true grit and tough inner core, yes. Of course, McCain couldn't have used his sidearm because he failed to eject properly and broke himself up. But he still managed to survive a tough ordeal and for that he should be praised and awarded military honors.

But you have to wonder what was going through the mind of the Pentagon when John McCain came home to a media love-fest. Why would'nt the military want to make him an Admiral even though he was the son and grandson of an Admiral and a certified media celebrity? Perhaps it was his rather undistinguished record. Perhaps they didn't think it was a good idea for someone who had been tortured to be in command of an aircraft carrier.

Whatever the reason, it's clear John McCain military disaster was coming to an end, so McCain jumped into politics, taking a job working for hard-drinking Texas Senator John Tower.

John McCain's central argument for being President of the United States is that he was a war hero. Yet, I cannot find one confirmable act of military heroism he performed. Just as the Navy Department did all those years ago, I can only conclude that John McCain is unfit for command.

]And he certainly is no hero.

Now lets watch namfaggot come back with his prove it argument.

So will someone - ANYONE - please tell me with McShitstain's war record, where does the hero status come into play.