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06-20-2008, 08:49 AM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Omaha, which is why Dave won't come here
Posts: 2,986
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetblast
That's a lot of talk to get around the fact you're ignoring torture like hanging people from ceilings by their arms, hot and cold, naked humiliation etc...
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Not at all Jet, as we've discussed, I'd cut your Balls off if I thought I could get information from you that would save American Lives. I didn't let my Education make me an effeminate Liberal like yours did..but that IS the price of an affirmative action education.
Now jet, why won't you acknowledge Bush's House was BUILT Eco-Friendly, BEFORE Gore ever even started to babble his nonsense?
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There are those, I know, who will say that the liberation of humanity, the freedom of man and mind, is nothing but a dream. They are right. It is the American dream.
~Archibald MacLeish
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06-20-2008, 11:23 AM
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Political Junkie
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 173
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I'm sure Uncle Fidel will be extremely pleased to find out that Guantanmo Bay isn't U.S. territory. Perhaps we should start flying the Cuban flag above the Stars and Stripes there, in recognition of this surprising little factoid.
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06-20-2008, 12:03 PM
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Political Mastermind
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,460
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flanders
...From Wikipedia:
In a per curiam opinion, ...
Here’s the definition of per curiam: ...
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Here is the real per curium definition: The fucking justices were too chickshit to sign their names to their decision, because it was the most "political" decision since Dread Scott.
Of course, we all know that Sandra Douch O'Conner was the flip-floper who gave the dickheads a majority, which SHE LATER REGRETTED.
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06-20-2008, 12:08 PM
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Political Mastermind
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,460
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Quote:
Originally Posted by herby
I'm sure Uncle Fidel will be extremely pleased to find out that Guantanmo Bay isn't U.S. territory. Perhaps we should start flying the Cuban flag above the Stars and Stripes there, in recognition of this surprising little factoid.
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Did you hear the oral argument when Waxman told Roberts and Scalia about the Terms and Conditions of the Gitmo Lease Agreement? They got a quite as a mouse.
Roberts and Scalia apparently get their legal advice for Lush Rimbaugh, and never read the briefs that had a copy of the Gitmo Lease Agreement with Cuba.
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06-20-2008, 12:31 PM
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Political Guru
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 819
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To herby & toxic: Well, at least everyone agrees that Guantánamo is leased. That means that it does not have the same status as do American embassies on foreign soil.
American companies lease land in foreign countries. That land is not American soil. Is it your position that enemy combatants who kill corporate employees on leased land in a foreign country would also be entitled to habeas corpus?
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Flanders
The basic test of freedom is perhaps less in what we are free to do than in what we are free not to do. It is the freedom to refrain, withdraw and abstain which makes a totalitarian regime impossible. Eric Hoffer
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06-20-2008, 02:33 PM
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Political Mastermind
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,460
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flanders
To herby & toxic: Well, at least everyone agrees that Guantánamo is leased. That means that it does not have the same status as do American embassies on foreign soil.
American companies lease land in foreign countries. That land is not American soil. Is it your position that enemy combatants who kill corporate employees on leased land in a foreign country would also be entitled to habeas corpus?
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You logic is very flawed. What American companies do or their status is irrelevant. A company is not a sovereign state.
Why would it matter if the property (Embassy or Gitmo) was provided under a lease or free? That is no more important than if there is dirt or cement under the building.
What is important is the AGREEMENT or CONTRACT. Embassies have defined International status as Diplomatic Missions, with long understood Rights and Responsibilities (See below).
In the case of Gitmo, the sovereign power is the USA, by CONTRACT. No 6th grade rewording is going to change the facts. I'm sure you think Justices and Lawyers change the meaning of words daily, but it is actually your ignorance of the meanings of historical precedence is what keeps you from understanding the obvious.
Diplomatic mission - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
...
Extraterritoriality
Under international law, diplomatic missions enjoy an extraterritorial status and thus, although remaining part of the host country's territory, they are exempt from local law and in almost all respects treated as being part of the territory of the home country. They are also only required to pay taxes equal to their respective countries' guidelines.
As the host country may not enter the representing country's embassy without permission, embassies are sometimes used by refugees escaping from either the host country or a third country. For example, North Korean nationals, who would be arrested and deported from China upon discovery, have sought sanctuary at various third-country embassies in China. Once inside the embassy, diplomatic channels can be used to solve the issue and send the refugees to another country. Notable violations of embassy extraterritoriality include the Iran hostage crisis (1979–1981), the Japanese embassy hostage crisis which took place in Lima, Peru 1996, the 2006 embassy burnings in Iran, Lebanon and Syria of Danish, Norwegian and Chilean embassies. ...
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06-20-2008, 05:47 PM
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Political Guru
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 819
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toxic
You logic is very flawed. What American companies do or their status is irrelevant. A company is not a sovereign state.
Why would it matter if the property (Embassy or Gitmo) was provided under a lease or free? That is no more important than if there is dirt or cement under the building.
What is important is the AGREEMENT or CONTRACT. Embassies have defined International status as Diplomatic Missions, with long understood Rights and Responsibilities (See below).
In the case of Gitmo, the sovereign power is the USA, by CONTRACT. No 6th grade rewording is going to change the facts. I'm sure you think Justices and Lawyers change the meaning of words daily, but it is actually your ignorance of the meanings of historical precedence is what keeps you from understanding the obvious.
Diplomatic mission - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
...
Extraterritoriality
Under international law, diplomatic missions enjoy an extraterritorial status and thus, although remaining part of the host country's territory, they are exempt from local law and in almost all respects treated as being part of the territory of the home country. They are also only required to pay taxes equal to their respective countries' guidelines.
As the host country may not enter the representing country's embassy without permission, embassies are sometimes used by refugees escaping from either the host country or a third country. For example, North Korean nationals, who would be arrested and deported from China upon discovery, have sought sanctuary at various third-country embassies in China. Once inside the embassy, diplomatic channels can be used to solve the issue and send the refugees to another country. Notable violations of embassy extraterritoriality include the Iran hostage crisis (1979–1981), the Japanese embassy hostage crisis which took place in Lima, Peru 1996, the 2006 embassy burnings in Iran, Lebanon and Syria of Danish, Norwegian and Chilean embassies. ...
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To toxic: Either you’re trying to be clever or you’re another Lefty whose reading comprehension skills leave much to be desired. I suspect that it is the latter.
You cited the Wikipedia definition on the status of embassies without mentioning the status of enemy combatants who kill corporate employees on leased land in a foreign country. The court obviously gave habeas corpus to enemy soldiers everywhere. That was my point in asking the question. In other words, every terrorist is a criminal entitled to a trial in a civilian court. That is the judgment Democrat traitors have been after for five years. Bin Laden himself would go into a criminal court were he captured.
Following the High Court’s logic, enemy combatants killing Americans within the confines of an American embassy would also be entitled to a trial in a criminal court. Not to put too fine a point on it, the Boumediene v. Bush decision says that the International community must approve of every action taken by the American judicial system. American traitors have been working toward their primary objective for many decades. Now they have it thanks to five treasonous lawyers who should be impeached at the very least.
And since you can't comprehend what I write, don't presume to tell me what I think.
__________________
Flanders
The basic test of freedom is perhaps less in what we are free to do than in what we are free not to do. It is the freedom to refrain, withdraw and abstain which makes a totalitarian regime impossible. Eric Hoffer
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06-20-2008, 06:13 PM
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Political Mastermind
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,460
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flanders
To toxic: Either you’re trying to be clever or you’re another Lefty whose reading comprehension skills leave much to be desired. I suspect that it is the latter.
You cited the Wikipedia definition on the status of embassies without mentioning the status of enemy combatants who kill corporate employees on leased land in a foreign country. The court obviously gave habeas corpus to enemy soldiers everywhere. That was my point in asking the question. In other words, every terrorist is a criminal entitled to a trial in a civilian court. That is the judgment Democrat traitors have been after for five years. Bin Laden himself would go into a criminal court were he captured.
Following the High Court’s logic, enemy combatants killing Americans within the confines of an American embassy would also be entitled to a trial in a criminal court. Not to put too fine a point on it, the Boumediene v. Bush decision says that the International community must approve of every action taken by the American judicial system. American traitors have been working toward their primary objective for many decades. Now they have it thanks to five treasonous lawyers who should be impeached at the very least.
And since you can't comprehend what I write, don't presume to tell me what I think.
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Well it is difficult to have a war when no STATE is involve.
Of course, moron Republicans have been losing wars to Nouns for sometime now ... like Drugs, Al Queda, Detainees, Science, Evolution, Art, ...
Yet, you still are trying to claim that "something has changed", but NOTHING HAS CHANGED.
Surely, you know by now that Writ of HC was provided to WWII Japenese, Viet Cong civilians in Vietnam, Brits in the Revolution, US Sailors by Brits (Common Law Precedence), etc.
So I guess your whining is for some poor moron here that doesn't know the truth and will listen to your crap.
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06-20-2008, 08:09 PM
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Political Guru
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 819
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toxic
Well it is difficult to have a war when no STATE is involve.
Of course, moron Republicans have been losing wars to Nouns for sometime now ... like Drugs, Al Queda, Detainees, Science, Evolution, Art, ...
Yet, you still are trying to claim that "something has changed", but NOTHING HAS CHANGED.
Surely, you know by now that Writ of HC was provided to WWII Japenese, Viet Cong civilians in Vietnam, Brits in the Revolution, US Sailors by Brits (Common Law Precedence), etc.
So I guess your whining is for some poor moron here that doesn't know the truth and will listen to your crap.
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To toxic: Now you’re slipping away into never-never land. Take a few deep breaths and get a grip on yourself.
Wars fought against nouns! Did you get that thought from Sesame Street? Your concept conjures up life-size images of upper and lower case letters on the march against humans.
Every Muslim belongs to one state —— Islam. They say as much. Muslims are fighting a new kind of war because they know better than to mount a traditional army. Muslims have been exploiting the split in Christian democracies since the end of WW II and probably longer. That split is caused by leading Democrats who would see America destroyed before they fight with non-Socialists to defeat a common enemy.
Petroleum wealth notwithstanding, Muslim fundamentalists would never have attacked a united America let alone attack a united West. Everything that America traitors do in the name of internationalism gives Muslim fanatics renewed hope for victory.
WW II Japanese and Germans were tried by military tribunals collectively known as the War Crimes Trials. They did not get trials in civilian courts.
Viet Cong civilians is a contradiction in terms. The Viet Cong were armed guerrillas engaging in acts of terrorism.
You’ve posted almost a thousand messages on AWE. It’s time you got your facts straight in your replies.
What the hell does Great Britain’s treatment of Americans during the American Revolution have to do with how this country applies habeus corpus today? In case you missed it, Colonial Americans won the war and established their own laws including how those laws would be administered. Now, the Left wants to give it all away to the International community.
Returning to Boumediene v. Bush. Let me try it this way:
Withdraw American troops as the Left is calling for. Two options remain after the military is out of the picture. Send American police personnel overseas to fight the war since enemy combatants are now criminals according to five lawyers, or wait until Muslim terrorists come here where they can be arrested by the police after they break the law.
__________________
Flanders
The basic test of freedom is perhaps less in what we are free to do than in what we are free not to do. It is the freedom to refrain, withdraw and abstain which makes a totalitarian regime impossible. Eric Hoffer
Last edited by Flanders; 06-20-2008 at 08:13 PM.
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