Shouting fire in a crowded classroom

StormanNorman · #11 (**permalink**) 05-11-2008, 04:41 PM

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Originally Posted by kgpoolerev

Now explain how the universe and life came to be without requiring me to have faith in what you are saying.

I can't explain it....I can only theorize based on physical observations.

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To use the Big Bang theory you have to disregard matter being neither created nor destroyed. It requires a lot of faith to believe there was nothing and then a large explosion occurred creating every.

No, it requires observation....as matter in the universe appears to be moving away from a central point at more or less speeds predicted by the laws of physics. And, Ken, matter can be created and destroyed...that's where the energy in an atomic blast comes from. E=MC^2.

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Natural selection requires life to exist in order to adapt to it's enviroment. So how would you have me believe that life began?

I don't know how life began, Ken....so, I guess I wouldn't have you believe anything. Again, we can theorize...attempt to recreate certain conditions in a lab that may have existed billions of years ago, etc...

StormanNorman · #12 (**permalink**) 05-11-2008, 05:10 PM

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Originally Posted by rob

SN, I agree what you have said but lately I am seeing that evolutionists have been acting like theirs is a religion too.

Perhaps, Rob....of course, some people tend to do that with just about anything like their favorite sports team, etc.....I'm just glad I'm not one of them....

kgpoolerev · #13 (**permalink**) 05-11-2008, 11:03 PM

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Originally Posted by StormanNorman

I can't explain it....I can only theorize based on physical observations.

No, it requires observation....as matter in the universe appears to be moving away from a central point at more or less speeds predicted by the laws of physics. And, Ken, matter can be created and destroyed...that's where the energy in an atomic blast comes from. E=MC^2.

I don't know how life began, Ken....so, I guess I wouldn't have you believe anything. Again, we can theorize...attempt to recreate certain conditions in a lab that may have existed billions of years ago, etc...

So I need to have faith and choice to believe that we have a perfect understanding of it.

When you split the atoms you are releasing the energy which is part of the atom. The atoms are not destroyed they are transformed and the energy from joining the atoms together is released. "First Law of Thermodynamics: Energy can be changed from one form to another, but it cannot be created or destroyed. The total amount of energy and matter in the Universe remains constant, merely changing from one form to another. The First Law of Thermodynamics (Conservation) states that energy is always conserved, it cannot be created or destroyed. In essence, energy can be converted from one form into another." Please note the use of Law indicating this considered a scientific fact versus a theory which is and educated guess.

To teach creationism in the form of the Big Bang requires faith, not fact. To teach creationism of God requires faith, not fact. So why is one prohibited in classrooms?

Darwinism is a fine theory, but it cannot explain life. Of course for all we know evolution is God's way of allowing for his creation to adapt without constant micromanaging. Science and religon are not mutally exclusive, except in our government schools that force kids to learn that religon is a myth by excluding it from education.

StormanNorman · #14 (**permalink**) 05-11-2008, 11:45 PM

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Originally Posted by kgpoolerev

So I need to have faith and choice to believe that we have a perfect understanding of it.

Perfect understanding of what?

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When you split the atoms you are releasing the energy which is part of the atom. The atoms are not destroyed they are transformed and the energy from joining the atoms together is released. "First Law of Thermodynamics: Energy can be changed from one form to another, but it cannot be created or destroyed. The total amount of energy and matter in the Universe remains constant, merely changing from one form to another. The First Law of Thermodynamics (Conservation) states that energy is always conserved, it cannot be created or destroyed. In essence, energy can be converted from one form into another." Please note the use of Law indicating this considered a scientific fact versus a theory which is and educated guess.

An atomic bomb derives its energy from the splitting of the U-235 or Pu-239 atoms. During fission, these atoms split into smaller atoms. For example, when the U-235 atom splits, it becomes Krypton-92 and Barium-141 and two free neutrons. The resulting total mass is less than the mass of the original U-235 atom. The lost mass has been converted to energy and is governed by Einstein’s equation, E=M*C^2.....and that energy is the explosive power in an atomic bomb. Similar idea for a fusion bomb....there is still a loss of mass when two hydrogen atoms are fused into a helium atom that is converted to energy.

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To teach creationism in the form of the Big Bang requires faith, not fact. To teach creationism of God requires faith, not fact. So why is one prohibited in classrooms?

No, Ken, like I said, the Big Bang theory requires observation, hypothesis, experimentation, and theorizing. And with all that, the understanding that it is a theory and parts of it or the whole thing could change with new discoveries, technologies, hypotheses, etc. That's the wonders of science, Ken....you, observe, hypothesize, experiment, and theorize....with the understanding that you may not have the whole picture....and that future discoveries may drastically affect current ideas.

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Darwinism is a fine theory, but it cannot explain life.

Well, it doesn't really explain how life began.

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Of course for all we know evolution is God's way of allowing for his creation to adapt without constant micromanaging. Science and religon are not mutally exclusive, except in our government schools that force kids to learn that religon is a myth by excluding it from education.

First of all, Ken, why does excluding it make it seen as a myth? Faith is a very personal thing and there are many different kinds of faiths and beliefs...even inside Christianity alone. So, isn't the best way to placate everyone is just to leave it out of the public forum and let everyone pursue it in their own personal way? Teaching any religious faith or belief as a myth would also be a violation of the Separation of Church and State. And, second, so you want to include faith-based teaching in public schools...OK, whose faith do we teach?

noneof yourbusiness · #15 (**permalink**) 05-12-2008, 01:35 AM

This is so true. Amerians ranting about generalsations while the make there own.

YOu have to disclaimer ever sentence or they call you racists for every fucking thing. It is tyranny.

Suburbanite · #16 (**permalink**) 05-12-2008, 02:32 AM

would you let a pegan teach you about the sun god instead of evolution? cmon, these are fucking BIOLOGY CLASSES

Flanders · #17 (**permalink**) 05-12-2008, 07:13 AM

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Originally Posted by StormanNorman

Because the Theory of Evolution is not a religion nor is it religious in nature. It is based upon discovery, observation, experimentation, and extrapolation....unlike true religious faith.

Originally Posted by Flanders
God, or Darwin, is not the question. The legal question should be: Why teach your religion with tax dollars and not mine?

From StormanNorman: Because the Theory of Evolution is not a religion nor is it religious in nature.

To StormanNorman: Socialism is the religion. The THEORY of Evolution is a tenet of that religion as is global warming, equal distribution of the wealth, and so on.

From StormanNorman: It is based upon discovery, observation, experimentation, and extrapolation....unlike true religious faith.

To StormanNorman: Darwinians base their OPINIONS on the foundations you’ve listed. Global warming true believers use the same designer-science methods to predict an outcome that suits their sect of the socialist religion. All Socialists, regardless of their sect, believe in socialism. Religious faith is the same with or without a supreme God.

XXXXX

From StormanNorman to kgpoolerev in # 14 permalink:

Teaching any religious faith or belief as a myth would also be a violation of the Separation of Church and State. And, second, so you want to include faith-based teaching in public schools... OK, whose faith do we teach?

To StormanNorman: Keep them all out ——including socialism/communism —— or let them all in. In the present education structure, the only thing that needs to be settled is where tax dollars will be spent teaching Intelligent Design? If not in biology, than in social studies, or philosophy, just so long as the same amount of tax dollars is spent on both disciplines.

Incidentally, the Theory of Evolution does not identify the Prime Mover nor does Intelligent Design prove that God is the prime mover. The theory simply argues that a Prime Mover must exist.

kgpoolerev · #18 (**permalink**) 05-13-2008, 05:56 PM

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Originally Posted by StormanNorman

Perfect understanding of what?

An atomic bomb derives its energy from the splitting of the U-235 or Pu-239 atoms. During fission, these atoms split into smaller atoms. For example, when the U-235 atom splits, it becomes Krypton-92 and Barium-141 and two free neutrons. The resulting total mass is less than the mass of the original U-235 atom. The lost mass has been converted to energy and is governed by Einstein’s equation, E=M*C^2.....and that energy is the explosive power in an atomic bomb. Similar idea for a fusion bomb....there is still a loss of mass when two hydrogen atoms are fused into a helium atom that is converted to energy.

No, Ken, like I said, the Big Bang theory requires observation, hypothesis, experimentation, and theorizing. And with all that, the understanding that it is a theory and parts of it or the whole thing could change with new discoveries, technologies, hypotheses, etc. That's the wonders of science, Ken....you, observe, hypothesize, experiment, and theorize....with the understanding that you may not have the whole picture....and that future discoveries may drastically affect current ideas.

Well, it doesn't really explain how life began.

First of all, Ken, why does excluding it make it seen as a myth? Faith is a very personal thing and there are many different kinds of faiths and beliefs...even inside Christianity alone. So, isn't the best way to placate everyone is just to leave it out of the public forum and let everyone pursue it in their own personal way? Teaching any religious faith or belief as a myth would also be a violation of the Separation of Church and State. And, second, so you want to include faith-based teaching in public schools...OK, whose faith do we teach?

Go find 'seperation of Church and State' in the Constitution.

So you are trying to convince me that matter is created and destroyed which is a direct contradiction of the First Law of Thermodynamics. So when the U235 is bombarded with a neutron making it U236 it then breaks down into Kr92 and Ba141 and 3 seperate neutrons which then hit other U235 atoms and create a chain reaction. Now if you add all of the atomic mass together you have the same mass coming out as you have going into the reaction. It is an extothermic reaction releasing a lot of energy.

Tell me Storman, where did the bang come from? What matter was there? What would you have me believe?

StormanNorman · #19 (**permalink**) 05-13-2008, 11:32 PM

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Originally Posted by kgpoolerev

Go find 'seperation of Church and State' in the Constitution.

OK, Ken, it's right here in the First Amendment...

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Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

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So you are trying to convince me that matter is created and destroyed which is a direct contradiction of the First Law of Thermodynamics. So when the U235 is bombarded with a neutron making it U236 it then breaks down into Kr92 and Ba141 and 3 seperate neutrons which then hit other U235 atoms and create a chain reaction. Now if you add all of the atomic mass together you have the same mass coming out as you have going into the reaction. It is an extothermic reaction releasing a lot of energy.

Matter can be converted into energy...they are interchangeable. If you took a dollar bill out of your pocket and instantaneously converted it to energy, you would have an explosion about the size of the one over Hiroshima. They (scientists) figured that about 1 gram of matter was converted into energy under Einstein's formula, E=m*c^2, in the blast over Hiroshima. See the link below...

The nuclear bomb from Hiroshima up to modern use

It says....

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The principle on which the atomic bomb is founded has its roots in the search developed in 1905 by Albert Einstein who published the theory of the narrow relativity, that contains the famous relationship of equivalence between mass and energy, expressed by the equation E=mc2. The relationship of Einstein affirms that a mass m can be transformed in a quantity of energy equal to the product of the same mass for the square of the speed of the light in the void, c

and this link

Little Boy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

says...

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Approximately 600 milligrams of mass were converted into energy.

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Tell me Storman, where did the bang come from?

I don't know, Ken...there are theories...including the Big Bang Theory itself...., but that is one of the great mysteries of science.

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What matter was there? What would you have me believe?

I would have you believe nothing, Ken. Look at the observations for yourself; read the different and sometimes differing theories that try to explain those observations...and see what you think....that is what science is all about....

percysunshine · #20 (**permalink**) 05-13-2008, 11:36 PM

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Originally Posted by patriot2342001

I remember back in 2003 how the anti-war people were not given a voice in the media.

Yeah sure. Pick one 4 month period over the past 40 years....commie