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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 11-04-2007, 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by mulp View Post
Let's make it retroactive all the way back and disallow anyone from having a say in government unless they were legal immigrants that fully respected the property rights of the real owners, those who descended from those really found the land vacant.

Ooops, that disallows everyone involved in setting up the US.

How about amending the constitution to mandate ongoing government handouts and cheap land obtained by taking from those who own and live on the land. Cheap land was a real hit with the immigrants for centuries, which brought new blood to the nation, so let's go back to the old days of offering other people's land to immigrants.
History is full of people getting land taken from them, including those who came here. Tired old argument which should get no play.

Secondly, nobody alive today was involved in setting up the US so your point is moot anyway.
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 11-04-2007, 08:31 PM
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A very simple change; require that all voting for Federal office be done by approval voting. In every election you get to vote for as many candidates as you approve of, and you don't vote for any that you don't approve of.

The candidate with the most votes is the one approved of by the most people and it therefore the one best for the job.

That would really dilute the power of the parties, the power of lobbiest, the single issue campaigners.
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old 11-04-2007, 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Dom1 View Post
History is full of people getting land taken from them, including those who came here. Tired old argument which should get no play.

Secondly, nobody alive today was involved in setting up the US so your point is moot anyway.
Yet. but there are lots a live who have been involved in taking from people in other lands by invasion and other ways that if done to the the US or people of the US would generate lots of outrage.

I'm sure that a few of those involved in trying to gain control of Iran's mineral wealth by taking control of its government, installing what was expected to be a US puppet, the Shah of Iran.

And I suspect a good number who tried to take property in Cuba are still alive.

And what of Hawaii?

And the land and wealth of the native people within the US have been taken in violation of treaties and laws, even in recent history.

The last people to be all righteous and sanctimonious are the American people.

The US is consuming a quarter of the non-renewable resources of the planet, and in the process playing a major role in setting up the planet for major climate changes that aren't going to be good for US citizens who are less than 5% of the population, but for the most part, far worse for the remaining 95% of the people on the planet.

What happened in the past few days in Mexico is just one example of the upcoming storms that are likely to hit many over the coming decades, not to mention the kinds of drought that are hitting the US west and the southeast.

I find it amazing how much people hate those who are giving the most to support the excesses of the people of the US.
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old 11-04-2007, 10:08 PM
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Originally Posted by RASTAMAN View Post
Great ideas.......however, inorder to achieve these changes, We The People would need to find a way to come together as one monolithic voting block! Also, we haven't even addressed the fact that 100 million eligible voters don't even register to vote!!

You may also want to add in campaign finance reforms as well. The 10 to 100's of millions of dollars it cost to run for congress and unseat an incumbent Senator or Rep. is another reason our political system and elected officials do not listen to the people.

After all, the Corporate-elitist political power structure that currently control our politics, our wallets, our freedoms and liberty's and our future, all come together in a monolithic monetary and political elitist solidarity to ensure they keep their wealth, influence and power.
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Originally Posted by Dom1 View Post
Election finance reform would take care of a lot of things which are listed above. Keep the lobbyist and other big money out of politics and most everything else that people complain about falls into place.

I don't think an amendment is necessary for doing this however.
Huh... I agree with Rasta and.... Dom? (don't panic Dom, I'm sure it's only temporary). But one must realize that the corporations and special interests do nothing but play by the rules set up by and for support the Fed, a private system of regional "central" banks. And I'm sorry my friends, but that falls into corporate/maritime law, not constitutional law.

At any rate, I'm not sure that this kind of reform requires an amendment, However, it would require an amendment to declare that corporations cannot be considered equal citizens of of the united states with their sovereign individual counterparts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mulp View Post
A very simple change; require that all voting for Federal office be done by approval voting. In every election you get to vote for as many candidates as you approve of, and you don't vote for any that you don't approve of.


The candidate with the most votes is the one approved of by the most people and it therefore the one best for the job.

That would really dilute the power of the parties, the power of lobbiest, the single issue campaigners.
On the face, I kind of like this idea. I won't touch the land issue, but this idea at least has some merit.

Ok, here's my idea...

Anyone holding office as 1)an elected official 2)the appointee of an elected official 3) or any person working for federal, state or local government shall not be referred to as anything more than a "public servant".

The titles of office may be used such as "President", "Mayor", "Congressman" etc, but labels like "leader", "lawmaker", "decider" shall not be used in conjunction with public office or government employment. They work for Us, We are the "deciders".


In this way we may serve these increasingly out of touch, arrogant, corporatists a daily reminder that they are beholden to one thing, and one thing only, the People of the United States of America and the constitution We protect. ok, that's two. Any further bowing to the corporate/banking class should be viewed as subversive to the ruling class of this country; "We the People".
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  #15 (permalink)  
Old 11-04-2007, 10:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OkhamsRazor View Post
Huh... I agree with Rasta and.... Dom? (don't panic Dom, I'm sure it's only temporary). But one must realize that the corporations and special interests do nothing but play by the rules set up by and for support the Fed, a private system of regional "central" banks. And I'm sorry my friends, but that falls into corporate/maritime law, not constitutional law.

At any rate, I'm not sure that this kind of reform requires an amendment, However, it would require an amendment to declare that corporations cannot be considered equal citizens of of the united states with their sovereign individual counterparts.



On the face, I kind of like this idea. I won't touch the land issue, but this idea at least has some merit.

Ok, here's my idea...

Anyone holding office as 1)an elected official 2)the appointee of an elected official 3) or any person working for federal, state or local government shall not be referred to as anything more than a "public servant".

The titles of office may be used such as "President", "Mayor", "Congressman" etc, but labels like "leader", "lawmaker", "decider" shall not be used in conjunction with public office or government employment. They work for Us, We are the "deciders".


In this way we may serve these increasingly out of touch, arrogant, corporatists a daily reminder that they are beholden to one thing, and one thing only, the People of the United States of America and the constitution We protect. ok, that's two. Any further bowing to the corporate/banking class should be viewed as subversive to the ruling class of this country; "We the People".
Or if I were to keep it simple. NO Corporation has the same rights as a human being. Period.

Until a corporation can have a colonoscopy...then I will be ...open...to the idea.

The fact that a corporation has the same rights as a people is the center of the problem.

If it must be in this country then my suggestion is quite simple...EVERYONE become incorporated....Fuck em'.

But then that gets into the whole property rights who is more valuable to have an informed 'voting' opinion etc. because it requires capitol to be a corp. eh All quite disturbing.
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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 11-04-2007, 10:57 PM
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I believe the Income Tax Amendment should be repealed and replaced by a national sales tax. Here are my reasons:
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 11-04-2007, 11:07 PM
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OOPs.! I accidentally posted my proposal without completing my thoughts. Here are the reasons I think the Income Tax amendment should be repealed:
1. It violates every citizens privacy. We are very concerned about that today but in reality we surrendered our privacy almost 100 years ago when we allowed the government to require discolosure of how much we earn, how we make our money, who we owe money to, what our mortgage payments are, what charities we contribute to, what we invest in and a whole host of things that the governement hasn't any business knowing.
2. A national sales tax would force everyone to pay -- including everyone in the underground economy, criminals and drug dealers. There would be no escaping the tax if you purchased anything and it would not violate our privacy.

Ony two states voted against the income tax amendment when it was proposed. One was Connecticut and the Senator from there predicted that this amendment would make liars out of the whole country and contribute mightily to our moral decline. This has come to pass. It is time to get rid of this tax that favors those who can send money offshore or those who work off the books at the expense of ordinary citizens.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 11-04-2007, 11:14 PM
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Originally Posted by crowonapost View Post
Or if I were to keep it simple. NO Corporation has the same rights as a human being. Period.
Until a corporation can have a colonoscopy...then I will be ...open...to the idea.

The fact that a corporation has the same rights as a people is the center of the problem.

If it must be in this country then my suggestion is quite simple...EVERYONE become incorporated....Fuck em'.

But then that gets into the whole property rights who is more valuable to have an informed 'voting' opinion etc. because it requires capitol to be a corp. eh All quite disturbing.
Great points.....I've always wondered how anyone bought into the concept in the first place........
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 11-04-2007, 11:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrankyYankee View Post
Great points.....I've always wondered how anyone bought into the concept in the first place........
In my humble opinion the only amendment that should be added....

No corporation should be considered the same as a living human (biological) being.

I think it would sever a lot of bullshit.


Of course I'm a crow, it doesn't matter I will find it food either way

According to my wife, I'm an asshole.

So take it for what it's worth.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 11-04-2007, 11:28 PM
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NO money to any politican for any reason EVER. Taxes will pay for there living needs while they serve there nation. No lobby no TV ads none of it. Air time is a public service announcement and the Networks WILL provide. Fuck em.
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