Originally Posted by Flying_Saucie

Just a quick question... why not oppose all government recognized marriage? It's only been around for a hundred and fifty years or so in the US, anyhow, which is a miniscule amount of time when compared to the tradition of marriage itself.

Originally Posted by FreedomForWho

The reason being is straight marriage is good for the state, and therefore receives benefits for such.

Originally Posted by FreedomForWho

Alright, irrelevant.





Uh, those subjects do not pertain to homosexual marriage...The only connection is they are all shared by "civil rights". However, those people were being wronged by racial and sexist discrimination, homosexuals are not under such scrutiny from the government. They are looking for this battle, and are waring it against the American people. Regardless of the effects it may have on our country, they seek their so called "freedoms".

ultimately, they realize something that you do not. They want to ELIMINATE MARRIAGE entirely. They want to reduce it to nothing. So that you can marry someone Monday, and divorce them Friday.



Proof.




For a reason yes, it offers no benefit to our state.






Are you paying attention at all...The United states of America legally and morally recognizes heterosexual marriage as being prosperous for the country. The heterosexual family also reflects the governments traditional values. There is no reason why the government would have to allow those "benefits" to anyone. Those choose to do so, under the pretense that the marriage reflects it's values and concerns.

Therefore, our government already recognizes heterosexual marriage on the basis that it is good for the state. (Dunno how much more clear I can present this for you...) It then falls upon YOU to present ME with evidence that the homosexual relationship is good for our country.


You just enjoy missing clear points don't you...

Let me break it down for you...
Simple logical deduction, nothing complicated nor opinionated about it...

Civil rights, you argue should be issued to everyone. This therefore applies to the polygamist and the dog lover.

...What do you not understand...

Try presenting an argument, rather than this circular debate on already well established fundamentals.




There is without a doubt...For we accept heterosexual marriage and offer the benefits for its positive contribution to our nation. The burden of proof then falls on you, to prove that homosexuality has the exact same offers.

However, you and I both know, that is not possible.


No more than you wish to change a law based on feelings, rather than economical, moral, structural, legal, and logical foundations.




I have mine because the government has chosen to do so. I however, do agree with you in the matter that the government should not interfer with personal relationships. Unless, set given relationship offers a benefit to society, so on those grounds our government will offer benefits to said relationship, to enhance its OWN benefits.

PROVE THAT HOMOSEXUALITY IN MARRIAGES WILL BENEFIT SOCIETY.

Originally Posted by bodecea

It is not up to homosexuals to prove benefits to society to gain their civil rights. However, it IS up to the government to prove a detriment to society in order to restrict gay marriage.

Originally Posted by Razzputin

Gay marriage is not a RIGHT....and it does not fit the criteria for marriage.

Originally Posted by FreedomForWho

Uh, those subjects do not pertain to homosexual marriage...The only connection is they are all shared by "civil rights". However, those people were being wronged by racial and sexist discrimination, homosexuals are not under such scrutiny from the government. They are looking for this battle, and are waring it against the American people. Regardless of the effects it may have on our country, they seek their so called "freedoms".

ultimately, they realize something that you do not. They want to ELIMINATE MARRIAGE entirely. They want to reduce it to nothing. So that you can marry someone Monday, and divorce them Friday.

Originally Posted by FreedomForWho

You are reasoning with your opinion, rather than with the legal ramifications.

If you wish for a change in our system to take place, the burden of proof falls on you.

Prove this to me.

-Homosexuality is good for the United States of America

Originally Posted by wolf_22

they are being discriminated against based on their sexual orientation.
and homophobia is also connected with patriarchy and misogyny. specific bigotry is often connected to other bigotry.

that is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.
wanting to marry someone you love adds value to marriage.
perhaps you should look at all the lovely heterosexual based tv shows like the Bachleor, Who wants to Marry a Millionaire?, or even things like TMZ which lvoes to report on celebes like Britney who marry for less than 4 days.
but of course those things seem to slip your mind, huh?



actual I'm using legal opiniion in my statements.

the only real issue I have to prove is that since we all have freedom and equality, the gov has no place telling two, consenting adults they can't wed.

but I've also listed the fact that married people tend to conform with society more than single people. thus the more married people = the better society is.

you keep talking about procreation and ignore two very important things:
1- not all married straights have or will ever have kids
2-gay people can be parents as well

Originally Posted by FreedomForWho

You have to prove more than equality. Homosexuals realize something you don't, and this is what they want...

Homosexual marriages should end all marriage, and will rightly due so. The government will have no reason to provide homosexuals with benefits, because they cannot naturally procreate. The majority of heterosexual Americans can procreate, and do 90% of the time... You don't marry someone and not fuck them, simple as that. The product of sex, is a child in heterosexual relationships most of the time. The product of sex in a homosexual relationship is, enjoyment... The fundemental truth is that two homosexuals cannot share a child naturally. It is not possible.

A heterosexual couple can and do share a child of natural causes. Thus, the both parents have a responsibility to the child.

And whether you want to accept the rules of debate or not, the truth still remains the burden of proof is on you. Things are not changed because people will it. Prove WHY a homosexual should have the rights of marriage. They know this, and know that the government has no reason to support their union with benefits.

They want to end marriage. All of this bullshit about love is more of an illusion. They are telling us that our society, OUR TRADITION, and OUR MORALS, and OUR BELIEFS are not good enough for them. That our laws are hendering on them because they wish to go outside of societies acceptable boundries...

Have you ever seen a gay pride parade? It is very similar to a KKK rally, or black panther meeting.

They indulge in their own perfect while stating others are wrong, mind you, THE MAJORITY.

There are two ways you can look at marriage, convention, or higher. If it is a convention, it is described by the majority of man. If it is higher, than it is left to religion.

Which do you see it as?

Originally Posted by FreedomForWho

You have to prove more than equality. Homosexuals realize something you don't, and this is what they want...

Homosexual marriages should end all marriage, and will rightly due so. The government will have no reason to provide homosexuals with benefits, because they cannot naturally procreate. The majority of heterosexual Americans can procreate, and do 90% of the time... You don't marry someone and not fuck them, simple as that. The product of sex, is a child in heterosexual relationships most of the time. The product of sex in a homosexual relationship is, enjoyment... The fundemental truth is that two homosexuals cannot share a child naturally. It is not possible.

A heterosexual couple can and do share a child of natural causes. Thus, the both parents have a responsibility to the child.
let me put this in simple terms:
1-equality = if one pair of adults can marry, so can every other
2- procreation isn't required for marriage now
3-gay people can have kids
4-marriage stabalizes people. stable people benefite the whole nation.

And whether you want to accept the rules of debate or not, the truth still remains the burden of proof is on you. Things are not changed because people will it. Prove WHY a homosexual should have the rights of marriage. They know this, and know that the government has no reason to support their union with benefits. read above

They want to end marriage. All of this bullshit about love is more of an illusion. They are telling us that our society, OUR TRADITION, and OUR MORALS, and OUR BELIEFS are not good enough for them. That our laws are hendering on them because they wish to go outside of societies acceptable boundries...
thats not true. that is boarding on paranoid
Have you ever seen a gay pride parade? It is very similar to a KKK rally, or black panther meeting.
I got to pride. have you ever seen a KKK rally?
the two aren't similair in any way.

They indulge in their own perfect while stating others are wrong, mind you, THE MAJORITY.

There are two ways you can look at marriage, convention, or higher. If it is a convention, it is described by the majority of man. If it is higher, than it is left to religion.

Which do you see it as?

Originally Posted by FreedomForWho

You have to prove more than equality. Homosexuals realize something you don't, and this is what they want...