And these are the people that we insist that Israel work with?? Hell, they can't even work amongst themselves....

Hamas, Fatah Fighting Escalates
DEATH THREATS: Militants from the president's party threatened to execute an opposition minister and shut down schools in Gaza

AP , GAZA CITY, GAZA STRIP
Wednesday, Oct 04, 2006, Page 6

A Fatah-linked militia circulated leaflets yesterday threatening to kill top leaders of the rival Hamas Party as violence between the sides escalated in the West Bank and Gaza Strip.

The al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades, the Fatah militant group, confirmed the authenticity of the statement, which threatened to execute Interior Minister Said Siyam of Hamas, the group's Syria-based political leader, Khaled Mashaal, and Youssef Zahar, head of the Hamas militia.

Gunmen allied with Fatah forced the closure of several schools throughout central Gaza yesterday, telling children and teachers to leave and saying the education process must be stopped.

They did not explain why they closed the schools.

Fatah gunmen also blocked a major intersection in central Gaza yesterday, shouting "Down, down with Hamas," burning tires and dumpsters and shooting in the air.

Violence erupted between the sides on Sunday, when the 3,500-strong Hamas militia confronted members of the Fatah-dominated security forces, who were protesting the government's inability to pay their wages.

Fatah militants responded by torching the Cabinet building in Ramallah and trashing Hamas offices throughout the West Bank. A string of running street battles killed eight people and wounded 100 others on Sunday.
http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/worl.../04/2003330385

__________________
"A committee is a group of people who individually can do nothing but together can decide that nothing can be done."
Fred Allen

"A government that robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul."
George Bernard Shaw

"Politics is the art of choosing between the disastrous and the unpalatable."
John Galbraith

Such a typical ignorant reaction here is an editorial that will shed some light on the subject

Mideast policy full circle

Having ignored him for over a year, now all of sudden the world and his dog wants to talk to Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas. It’s astonishing how short memories can be.

Israel didn’t want to negotiate its withdrawal from Gaza in the summer of 2005. Washington never pressured erstwhile prime minister Ariel Sharon to do so.

Israel did not respond to the unilateral ceasefire, still in force, that Abbas successfully managed to negotiate with all the Palestinian factions in Cairo in early 2005. Instead, Israel continued and continues killing and capturing Palestinians with impunity, while destroying the Palestinian economy.

Washington never did anything to help Abbas then.

Abbas bravely pressed on with elections in 2006. Hamas won, and Abbas refused, initially, to renege on the reforms he himself as prime minister had pressed for, namely to devolve powers from the presidency to the government.

When Arafat was president, the US wanted the Palestinian government to have more power. With Hamas in government, the US wanted the president to take it back.

The US backed the elections and backed Hamas’ standing. Once the results were clear, however, it went back on its promise to promote democracy in the region and shamelessly cut off a starving population from its only source of funding. The US has the right to support whomsoever it may see fit, but it actively pressured anyone against supporting the Palestinian government.

Now, Abbas is in a corner. Gradually he has come to see that the West will not back down and would rather see Palestinians kill each other and/or starve than accept the choice of the Palestinian people.

So Abbas, by signalling that he is ready to dismiss the Hamas-led government, at the worst time possible, is now ready to see how far the West will back him. Will they pour in weapons to support Fateh when a civil war breaks out? Is that his gamble?

If so, it is a fool’s wager. The West cares nothing for Palestinians, whether Fateh or Hamas. It was not long ago when Arafat was blamed as the cause for all Palestinians’ woes. The West simply does not have the political will or nous to confront Israel and thus any excuse to blame the victim will be seized upon.

Now US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice will meet Abbas. What will she tell him? What does the US promise? A Palestinian state? But how, when Israel needs to be pressured into accepting that?

Perhaps a Palestinian state minus the some 45 per cent of the West Bank that is left once the Jordan Valley, East Jerusalem and major settlement blocks are excluded?

More likely Rice will support Abbas politically in the ongoing coup against his own government, thus taking US Mideast policy full circle: Back to supporting the strongman the way Washington once supported the strongman in Baghdad. Except this strongman has a formidable foe among his own people.

Israel must be enjoying itself at the moment, especially once Gaza falls to Hamas and Fateh takes the scraps in the West Bank.

Thursday, October 5, 2006

The problems in the ME go far beyond just laying the blame at the feet of the US administration, or even Israel. It is even one reason why much of Africa is in the shape its in; the tribal mentality. Loyalties are to the tribe, not the nation. That is one reason why these areas will never prosper.

It is the reason we had the genocide in Rwanda, why we are having the problems in Sudan, why Hamas and Fatah are at each others throat, etc....

We can talk diplomacy on our end all day, and it won't make a bit of difference because these people just can't get along. Until we have a mass mindset change over here, nothing we do or say will really matter.

__________________
"A committee is a group of people who individually can do nothing but together can decide that nothing can be done."
Fred Allen

"A government that robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul."
George Bernard Shaw

"Politics is the art of choosing between the disastrous and the unpalatable."
John Galbraith

It is quite bigoted for you to assume that progress cannto take place in the ME or in Africa because of a 'tribal mentality'

Get real

Why not just blame President Bush for it.

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Liberal-a person who has his cake, eats his cake, and complains that other people don't have cake, and believes that you should donate your cake to them

lol..you guys...

Don't be so sensitive Ken, neither of these groups require any depth in the humankind department.
It seems to me the palistinians are being taught a lesson by their own appointed leaders within.
The palistinian(fatah)are finally making a statement here, they are taking a principled turn in recognizing israel and the (hamas)Syrians terrorist sects have gone apeshit.
I think the president of palestine and some political sects in hamas is attempting to eliminate a very very old class envy, they are attempting to steer away from syria, advance with Egypt mediating, in an actual attempt to reason and recognize israel.
For their interests of course, prehaps progress?
I guess they have finally figured out they have been pawns of syrian hate and egypts economy.
Maybe this inner war within palestine is positive in their grasp for civilization with the rest of the world.
Any sign of recognition with israel or the US are fighting words to hostile muslim militants, they would rather their people die of starvation than recognize israel or westerners.
There are other political 'leaders' who are begining to realize palestine will never be a state until they become civilized beyond a primitive fundamentalist regime.
OOh is this going to be a long hardcore battle.

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"The world is a fine place and worth fighting for" Ernest Hemingway

"The world will know that free men stood against a tyrant, that few stood against many" Spartan King Leonidas

MIM, well said. Any idea when they will become civilized?

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An informed voter scares the Goverment lackeys.

An American first and always a Conservative.

No I don't, but I can see that the ME is in the middle of an upheavel that will leave them will little room to think otherwise.
I've been expecting this epipheny to come much sooner, for the sake of the palistinian people.
Perhaps they will have to lose everything AGAIN before they get it right.
This is another example of how we are in the right place at the right time!
I do believe the US has started a revolution with a message, this message is getting somewhere, at the very least getting noticed.
It has been confirmed over generations that appeasement has only armed these maniacal enemy militants.
This is another sign of our actual accomplishments in the ME and how they are coming to an intellectual climax...civilization or death.
Which one?
I don't know.

__________________

"The world is a fine place and worth fighting for" Ernest Hemingway

"The world will know that free men stood against a tyrant, that few stood against many" Spartan King Leonidas

monky republicans are the only ones left that are civilized dont you see it. muslims,libs.and everyone is shit and takin us down.

When.... will....it....take....place??
How much money do we send to the Palestinians every year?? And what exactly do we have to show for it??

We propped up Arafat for a good number of years, providing financial support, and what were the results of our support? shopping trips for his wife and family while the average Palestinian citizen continued to live in squalor.

These people aren't ready for serious discussions on peace; they would rather played the "victim blame game." Its everyone else's fault except their own.

Fatah and Hamas are too busy running around shooting at each other; liberals want us to give these idiots legitimacy, and Israel just wants to be left alone.

Yeah, I see that Palestinian state happening real soon.....

__________________
"A committee is a group of people who individually can do nothing but together can decide that nothing can be done."
Fred Allen

"A government that robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul."
George Bernard Shaw

"Politics is the art of choosing between the disastrous and the unpalatable."
John Galbraith