confederate Flag must come down

Jody · #61 (**permalink**) 02-20-2007, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reynard1967

Though I believe The conferderate flag should be bid farewell( mainly because the Federation is gone), I do think the war should have never happened. The great thing was the United States were united because they wanted to. After that war the entire bases of our unity could be questioned.

Still.........The south will rise again..................and the north will be 2-0

They already have...it`s called the South Eastern Conference in College Football...Haaaaa....Haaaaa....

rob · #62 (**permalink**) 02-20-2007, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jody

They already have...it`s called the South Eastern Conference in College Football...Haaaaa....Haaaaa....

Jody please cut this shit, the SEC is just another conference.

cat's meow · #63 (**permalink**) 02-21-2007, 01:14 AM

We have gone over this before and I had posted and extensive history of the stars and bars...the meaning of the flag is entirely misconstrued and misrepresented by Southerners quite frankly. It did not exist before the Civil War, it does NOT represent Southern history of the antebellum era as many like to think. It was only a special, adhoc battle flag of war that was adopted during the war (that is it!). So, you have to ask, what proud heritage and society does it represent? Not that of antebellum or reconstruction Southerners.

The flag need not be there or represent any part of the South that was once the Confederacy.

cat's meow · #64 (**permalink**) 02-21-2007, 01:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jody

They already have...it`s called the South Eastern Conference in College Football...Haaaaa....Haaaaa....

Even as a Big 12 fan the SEC is EASILY THE FB CONFERENCE...FB IS KING DOWN HERE!!!

Areyouforreal · #65 (**permalink**) 02-21-2007, 06:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cat's meow

We have gone over this before and I had posted and extensive history of the stars and bars...the meaning of the flag is entirely misconstrued and misrepresented by Southerners quite frankly.

The Confederate Navy Jack (the Southern Cross) is not the Stars and Bars also it looks really similar to the battle flag of the Confederacy which is also different.

Quote:

<snip>

First national flag of the Confederacy ("the Stars and Bars")

The first official flag of the Confederacy, called the "Stars and Bars," was flown from March 5, 1861 to May 26, 1863.
One of the first acts of the Provisional Confederate Congress was to create the Committee on the Flag and Seal, chaired by William Porcher Miles of South Carolina. The committee asked the public to submit thoughts and ideas on the topic and was, as historian John M. Coski puts it, "overwhelmed by requests not to abandon the "old flag" of the United States. Miles had already designed a flag that would later become the Confederate battle flag, and he favored his flag over the "Stars and Bars" proposal. But given the popular support for a flag similar to the U.S. flag ("the Stars and Stripes"), the Stars and Bars design was approved by the committee. When war broke out, the Stars and Bars caused confusion on the battlefield because of its similarity to the U.S. flag of the Union Army.
Eventually, a total of thirteen stars would be shown on the flag. Its first public appearance was outside the Ben Johnson House in Bardstown, Kentucky.<snip>

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<snip>
The Battle Flag

The battle flag of the Confederacy is square, of various sizes for the different branches of the service: 48 inches square for the infantry, 36 inches for the artillery, and 30 inches for the cavalry. It was used in battle from November 1861 to the fall of the Confederacy. The blue color on the Saltire in the battle flag was navy blue, as opposed to the much lighter blue of the Naval Jack.
.<snip>

<snip>
This flag proved so popular, that it became basis for the Second National flag of the Confederacy (see above). Some prefer the square proportions of this flag over Miles' original rectangle as more sonorous and more distinct.
<snip>

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<snip>
The Naval Jack (colloquially called the "Rebel Flag")

The Confederate Navy Jack, 1863-1865

The Confederate Navy Jack, also called "The Southern Cross," is a rectangular precursor of the Battle Flag, usually about 5×3 feet. The blue color in the saltire (the diagonal cross) is much lighter than in the Battle Flag, and it was flown only on Confederate ships from 1863 to 1865.
The design was originally made by South Carolina Congressman William Porcher Miles with the intent to be the first national flag, but it was rejected by the Confederate government. Some critics supposedly scoffed at the design, saying it looked too much like crossed suspenders. While the square battle flag was widely used, the oblong version was also used by some army units, including the Army of Tennessee as their battle flag from 1864-1865. (After General Joseph Johnston took command of the Army of Tennessee from Braxton Bragg, he ordered its army-wide implementation to improve morale and avoid confusion.) Today, it is the most universally recognized symbol of the South, where it is commonly called the rebel or Dixie flag. This flag is often erroneously called "the Confederate Flag". (This Flag is often incorrectly referred to as the Stars and Bars; the actual Stars and Bars is the First National Flag.)
<snip>

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<snip>
Displaying the flag
What is usually called "The Confederate Flag" or "The Confederate Battle Flag" (actually the Navy Jack as explained above) is still a widely recognized symbol. The display of the flag is a controversial and very emotional issue, generally because of disagreement over exactly what it symbolizes. To many white people in the US South it is a symbol of their heritage and pride in their ancestors who held out during years of war under terrible odds and sacrifice. Others see it as a symbol of the institution of slavery, or of the Jim Crow laws established by the many Southern states enforcing racial segregation within their borders for almost a century later, or even as a symbol of rebellion against the United States government. As a result, there have been numerous political fights over the use of the Confederate battle flag in Southern state flags, at sporting events at Southern universities, and on public buildings. According to Civil War historian and southerner Shelby Foote, the flag traditionally represented the south's resistance to northern political dominance generally; it became racially charged during the Civil Rights Movement, when protecting segregation suddenly became the focal point of that resistance
<snip>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confederate_flag

God Killer · #66 (**permalink**) 02-21-2007, 06:03 AM

good that flag represents nothing but inequality and racism

flaja · #67 (**permalink**) 02-21-2007, 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rob

Southern states saw the restrictions on slavery as an excuse to eventualy make slavery illegal. I think you need to do some research on your own for this information. I am getting the feeling that I am helping you write a paper for school.

But, yet the Civil War was not about slavery?

flaja · #68 (**permalink**) 02-21-2007, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rob

Ok, I was misinformed on this portion of it. Thanks for letting us all know when the Norh became concerned about human rights. You know that even though they abolished it up north, why didn't they give more rights to the former slaves and women?

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/aia/part4/4p2957.html
Actually at the time the Constitution was ratified, there were free blacks living in the North who had voting rights. At one time or another, following the Revolution, free black men could vote in New Jersey, Connecticut, New York, Pennsylvania, Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont and Massachusetts. Over time the right to vote was either abolished or greatly restricted for blacks in some of these states.

Many northern states used to have laws that restricted how many blacks could live in them, what kind of property they could own and what kind of jobs they could have. But, remember the Northern states are the ones that proposed the 13th, 14th and 15 Amendments.

flaja · #69 (**permalink**) 02-21-2007, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenianforever1689

Well that is appropriate is it not?

I would not like for that to be the symbol of my state but I don't live there and I call it the "Civil War", not the "War of Northern Agression".

I find it ironic that the Democrats were the party that lead the rebellion while the Republicans implemented the 13th, 14th and 15th Amendments and welcomed Freedmen into Congress and now the Republicans are the ones supporting the Confederate flag while the Democrats want that flag removed.

flaja · #70 (**permalink**) 02-21-2007, 08:15 AM

Civil Rights Reconciliation Amendment

[The United States is a multi-racial society and has been since its founding. However, race is a scourge on the country, used to divide American from American so petty demagogues and bigots can create powerbases for themselves when they lack the intellectual ability and moral integrity to influence society on their own merits. This amendment is designed to promote a raceless society, one in which no American feels threatened by another and no American is barred from utilizing his God-given talents to maximize his greatness and the greatness of the American Nation.]

Clause 1: [This provision will abolish all affirmative action and racial set aside programs and will require racial equality before the law.]
The Congress and the states shall make no law which recognizes the race or national origin of any class of citizens of the United States or grants special privileges and immunities as a result of a citizen's race or national origin.
Any person or organization of persons who intentionally refuses to conduct commerce with any person or organization of persons on account of race or national origin shall be subject to such penalties which may be determined by a suit of equity prosecuted under the judicial power of the United States, providing that no penalties may be imposed because of a failure to conduct commerce with a certain number of persons of a particular race or national origin.
The citizens of the United States may not assemble or petition the government of the United States or the government of any of the several States for redress of grievances on account of race or national origin.

Clause 2: [This provision will overturn all reprieves and pardons granted to persons who participated in the government or armed forces of the Confederate States during the Civil War. The provision has no tangible effect after more than a century; its value is simply symbolic. The United States still suffers from the lingering racial animosity of slavery and this is due in part from the practice of paying homage to persons who engaged in treason in order to maintain slavery.]
All acts of Congress to remove any disability incurred under the fourteenth article of amendment to this Constitution for any offense committed against the United States between the twelfth day of April in the year one thousand eight-hundred and sixty-one and the first day of January in the year one thousand eight- hundred and sixty-six are hereby declared null and void.
All pardons granted by the President of the United States for any person disabled by the fourteenth article of amendment to this Constitution for offenses against the United States committed between the twelfth day of April in the year one thousand eight-hundred and sixty-one and the first day of January in the year one thousand eight-hundred and sixty-six are hereby declared null and void.

Clause 3: [This provision will remove the Confederate flag from all official flags in the United States. As long as a segment of the American population has a legitimate concern that the Confederate flag is a symbol of racism, that flag should not be displayed for official reasons. This provision will not prohibit individual persons or associations thereof from displaying the Confederate flag, but it will remove a rallying point for bigots and demagogues.]
After one year from the ratification of this amendment no revenue of the United States, or any of the several States or any entity created by the constitutions or the legislative authority, or electors thereof, of any the several States shall be used to display any flag, emblem, symbol, pennant or standard which has been used to designate the government or armed forces of any state or group of states that has engaged in rebellion against the United States or any of the several states except for the purposes of establishing or maintaining historical or educational displays.

Clause 4: [This provision will prohibit all official homage to persons who participated in the Confederate government or armed forces. Schools, roads, public buildings, parks et cetera may not carry the name of such persons, nor may governments maintain statues or other monuments or memorials to honor such persons. As a concession to the lingering Confederate sympathies this provision could be modified to exempt cemeteries.]
After one year from the ratification of this amendment no revenue of the United States, or any of the several States or any entity created by the constitutions or the legislative authority, or the electors thereof, of any of the several States shall be used to establish or maintain any monument or memorial to any person or group of persons that has engaged in rebellion against the United States or any of the several states.

Clause 5: [This provision will prohibit the payment of reparations for slavery.]
Neither the United States, nor any of the several States shall make any reparation for any law in effect prior to the first day of January in the year one thousand eight-hundred and sixty-six which was made null and void by the thirteenth article of amendment to this Constitution.
Neither the judicial power of the United States, nor the judicial power of any of the several states shall extend to any suit of equity prosecuted under any law in effect prior to the first day of January in the year one thousand eight-hundred and sixty-six which was repealed by the thirteenth article of amendment to this Constitution.