confederate Flag must come down

freedomlover · #51 (**permalink**) 02-20-2007, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jody

A quote from another forum..........

The American flag flew over the Union where slavery was practiced in many Northern states.Just to set the record straight on what Lincolns war of aggression was all about.

"My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union. I shall do less whenever I shall believe what I am doing hurts the cause, and I shall do more whenever I shall believe doing more will help the cause."

The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume V, "Letter to Horace Greeley" (August 22, 1862), p.

That is an excellent find. Good job and welcome to AWE.

justme · #52 (**permalink**) 02-20-2007, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jody

A quote from another forum..........

The American flag flew over the Union where slavery was practiced in many Northern states.Just to set the record straight on what Lincolns war of aggression was all about.

"My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union. I shall do less whenever I shall believe what I am doing hurts the cause, and I shall do more whenever I shall believe doing more will help the cause."

The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume V, "Letter to Horace Greeley" (August 22, 1862), p.

Jody, excellent post. I was thinking about that as I was reading the other posts. Couldn't remember exactly where I heard it, but that has always been interesting to me considering how people have tried to paint Lincoln.

Reynard1967 · #53 (**permalink**) 02-20-2007, 07:23 PM

Though I believe The conferderate flag should be bid farewell( mainly because the Federation is gone), I do think the war should have never happened. The great thing was the United States were united because they wanted to. After that war the entire bases of our unity could be questioned.

Still.........The south will rise again..................and the north will be 2-0

freedomlover · #54 (**permalink**) 02-20-2007, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flaja

I was speaking in terms of maintaining communication between opposing political factions.

BTW: People generally think I am a fool when I want to know how a candidate for local office stands on national issues such as abortion. But, my working assumption is than any office holder, no matter how lowly the office, wants to be president someday. I would much rather defeat a candidate whose ideas I don’t like when he is running for local office than have to worry what he may do in the White House.

I also believe that our representatives need to work on opening lines of communication instead of all the posturing they do. It is ridiculous. As far as local elections go, I have never thought of it from that perspective before. You have given me something to think about.

rob · #55 (**permalink**) 02-20-2007, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flaja

If I am so wrong about the Civil War and the Civil War was about states rights and not slavery, just tell me specifically what the North/Federal government did to violate the south's states rights.

flaja, this post is going to differ from Rastamans opinion but oh well. The South seceded from the union because the North was trying to limit the new states that were coming into the Union, Kansas and Missouri. The North was trying to keep slavery from spreading and that is the reason for secession. The South had no chance whatsoever to defeat the North, because the North had all the manufacturing and the South was mainly agriculture. Slavery was necessary to work the tobacco and cotton fields at that time. Once machines were brought along, the need for slaves would have been gone. The North owned slaves also before and during this period.

flaja · #56 (**permalink**) 02-20-2007, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rob

flaja, this post is going to differ from Rastamans opinion but oh well. The South seceded from the union because the North was trying to limit the new states that were coming into the Union, Kansas and Missouri.

How did this infringe on the states rights of the southern states?

And just why was the North trying to limit the admission of new states, if not because the South wanted these new states to be slave states?

rob · #57 (**permalink**) 02-20-2007, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flaja

How did this infringe on the states rights of the southern states?

And just why was the North trying to limit the admission of new states, if not because the South wanted these new states to be slave states?

Southern states saw the restrictions on slavery as an excuse to eventualy make slavery illegal. I think you need to do some research on your own for this information. I am getting the feeling that I am helping you write a paper for school.

flaja · #58 (**permalink**) 02-20-2007, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rob

The North owned slaves also[/b] before and during this period.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abolitionism

Abolition by law in the northern states was an accomplished fact by 1804. All northern states had laws on the books by 1804 to abolish slavery. The laws did not always take immediate effect and the most you can say is that abolition was a gradual process in some states and a few slaves remained in the North until 1860.

rob · #59 (**permalink**) 02-20-2007, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flaja

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abolitionism

Abolition by law in the northern states was an accomplished fact by 1804. All northern states had laws on the books by 1804 to abolish slavery. The laws did not always take immediate effect and the most you can say is that abolition was a gradual process in some states and a few slaves remained in the North until 1860.

Ok, I was misinformed on this portion of it. Thanks for letting us all know when the Norh became concerned about human rights. You know that even though they abolished it up north, why didn't they give more rights to the former slaves and women?

fenianforever1689 · #60 (**permalink**) 02-20-2007, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rob

Democrats are telling South Carolina to take the flag down.

Well that is appropriate is it not?

I would not like for that to be the symbol of my state but I don't live there and I call it the "Civil War", not the "War of Northern Agression".