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  #61 (permalink)  
Old 02-22-2007, 02:56 AM
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Originally Posted by flaja View Post
The ACU is far from conservative by my standards.
Let's see... you favor conservation even at the cost of energy independence, consistently opposing any new production. You're not too keen on the 2nd Amendment. The toll roads thing wasn't about raising taxes, but probably about replacing a tax with a user fee. You seem to think the courts are a superior branch to the legislative rather than equal. You don't want medical tort reform. And you don't want to exempt the internet from FEC red tape.

I'm at a loss to see how you qualify as a conservative at all. All those positions you've taken are not conservative, but moderate to liberal. Your own ACU rating, were you in Congress, would be low.
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  #62 (permalink)  
Old 02-22-2007, 06:06 AM
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McCain has lost his credibility and if the republican party doesn't get behind him he's another paragraph in american politics. He's the flip side of Hilary. Say anything do anything in the hopes the party will get behind them.
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  #63 (permalink)  
Old 02-22-2007, 07:13 AM
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Originally Posted by TheHarshTruth View Post
McCain has lost his credibility and if the republican party doesn't get behind him he's another paragraph in american politics. He's the flip side of Hilary. Say anything do anything in the hopes the party will get behind them.
Could be. The party's not getting behind him, and IMO it isn't going to. Desperation maybe?
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  #64 (permalink)  
Old 02-22-2007, 08:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Izdaari View Post
Let's see... you favor conservation even at the cost of energy independence, consistently opposing any new production.
I did not say I oppose new production. There are many alternatives to petroleum and we should develop them rather perpetuating our dependence on petroleum. I am in favor of new production as long as it is not aimed at producing more petroleum. Giving up long-term environmental sustainability for the sake of energy independence is not an even trade.

Quote:
You're not too keen on the 2nd Amendment.
I don’t see where the 2nd Amendment gives anyone an unregulated right to own guns. If the 2nd Amendment did give such a right it would not include the concept a “well regulated militia”.

Quote:
The toll roads thing wasn't about raising taxes, but probably about replacing a tax with a user fee.
And it would be better to reduce/eliminate both.

Quote:
You seem to think the courts are a superior branch to the legislative rather than equal.
How can the courts be an equal branch of government if Congress can easily nullify their rulings?

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You don't want medical tort reform.
When did I say that?

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And you don't want to exempt the internet from FEC red tape.
Actually I said I am in favor of the opposite. I am opposed to any effort to regulate the internet the way politicians and political organizations are regulated, because such regulations violate the 1st Amendment.

Quote:
I'm at a loss to see how you qualify as a conservative at all. All those positions you've taken are not conservative, but moderate to liberal. Your own ACU rating, were you in Congress, would be low.
What entitles you to be judge and jury of what constitutes conservatism?
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  #65 (permalink)  
Old 02-22-2007, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by flaja View Post
I did not say I oppose new production. There are many alternatives to petroleum and we should develop them rather perpetuating our dependence on petroleum. I am in favor of new production as long as it is not aimed at producing more petroleum. Giving up long-term environmental sustainability for the sake of energy independence is not an even trade.
That's a reasonable position, but it's the typically liberal position.

Quote:
I don’t see where the 2nd Amendment gives anyone an unregulated right to own guns. If the 2nd Amendment did give such a right it would not include the concept a “well regulated militia”.
Again, that's a reasonable position, but it's the typically liberal position.

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And it would be better to reduce/eliminate both.
Ain't going to happen unless we privatize the roads, and mostly it's just the most radical libertarians who favor that. How do you feel about gas taxes? With your emphasis on conservation, I'd think you'd be for raising them to discourage gasoline use.

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How can the courts be an equal branch of government if Congress can easily nullify their rulings?
I can't find the actual text of the proposed amendment anywhere. Since we can't be sure what happened there, I'll take this one off the list.

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When did I say that?
You didn't exactly, but you did include #17 Medical Malpractice in the list of issues you didn't like the ACU using for their ratings. But that issue is a huge left vs. right, liberal vs. conservative bone of contention whether we like it or not. I'll score you a half point for not taking sides.

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Actually I said I am in favor of the opposite. I am opposed to any effort to regulate the internet the way politicians and political organizations are regulated, because such regulations violate the 1st Amendment.
Ok, good, we're on the same side there. So you should've agreed with the ACU on that one, because that was the side they came down on.

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What entitles you to be judge and jury of what constitutes conservatism?
35 years of political activism for conservative organizations (such as Young Americans for Freedom, to name just one) and candidates. 35 years of personal involvement with the American conservative movement. 35 years of study of the intellectual history of it. 35 years of personal acquaintance with leading conservative activists. Trust me when I say I know what a conservative is and isn't.
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Last edited by Izdaari; 02-22-2007 at 08:47 AM.
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  #66 (permalink)  
Old 02-22-2007, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Izdaari View Post
That's a reasonable position, but it's the typically liberal position.
I don’t see it this way. The liberal position is to punish anyone who makes a profit and subsidize anyone who does not. The libertarian position calls for making as much profit possible as soon as possible regardless of the consequences. Profitable sustainability is the proper goal for a conservative.

Quote:
Again, that's a reasonable position, but it's the typically liberal position.
It’s the position of the Founding Fathers- none of whom would be liberal by today’s standards. I am merely following the traditional intent of the 2nd Amendment- and upholding tradition is what conservatism is all about.

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Ain't going to happen unless we privatize the roads, and mostly it's just the most radical libertarians who favor that.
The free market seldom looks out for the common good; I don’t see privatization of roads ever working on a wide scale.

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How do you feel about gas taxes? With your emphasis on conservation, I'd think you'd be for raising them to discourage gasoline use.
I would rather see higher fuel efficiency standards. Higher gas taxes would be fine if they were coupled with incentives to conserve what we have and develop alternatives.

Quote:
You didn't exactly, but you did include #17 Medical Malpractice in the list of issues you didn't like the ACU using for their ratings. But that issue is a huge left vs. right, liberal vs. conservative bone of contention whether we like it or not. I'll score you a half point for not taking sides.
I am in favor of holding bad doctors accountable when their actions cause death or injury. But, at the same time I think we have too many lawyers. The mere threat of lawsuits punishes the good doctors along with the bad. But, I will accept lawsuits until we can find a better way to deal with bad doctors.

Quote:
Ok, good, we're on the same side there. So you should've agreed with the ACU on that one, because that was the side they came down on.
I likely understand legalese better than most non-lawyers, but I think the ACU isn’t doing itself any favor in the way it phrases the explanation for the issues.

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35 years of political activism for conservative organizations (such as Young Americans for Freedom, to name just one) and candidates. 35 years of personal involvement with the American conservative movement. 35 years of study of the intellectual history of it. 35 years of personal acquaintance with leading conservative activists. Trust me when I say I know what a conservative is and isn't.
And you still jumped to conclusions regarding what I believe and what you think I believe, thereby concluding that I am not a conservative.
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  #67 (permalink)  
Old 02-22-2007, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by flaja View Post
And you still jumped to conclusions regarding what I believe and what you think I believe, thereby concluding that I am not a conservative.
Uh huh, and I stand by it after reading your response. Words mean things, and you're using conservative to mean something much different than the vast majority of other people who call themselves conservatives mean by it. When you say you're conservative, but disagree with the generally accepted conservative positions... well, that makes you a conservative to me the same way a Unitarian would be a Christian to you.
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Last edited by Izdaari; 02-22-2007 at 10:18 AM.
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  #68 (permalink)  
Old 02-22-2007, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Izdaari View Post
Could be. The party's not getting behind him, and IMO it isn't going to. Desperation maybe?
That's a very good point. It must be desperation.
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  #69 (permalink)  
Old 02-22-2007, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Izdaari View Post
Uh huh, and I stand by it after reading your response. Words mean things, and you're using conservative to mean something much different than the vast majority of other people who call themselves conservatives mean by it.
What guarantee do we have that these other people really know what conservatism is? Do any of my beliefs/goals conflict with Burke?
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  #70 (permalink)  
Old 02-22-2007, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by flaja View Post
What guarantee do we have that these other people really know what conservatism is? Do any of my beliefs/goals conflict with Burke?
The only Burke I remember well enough to use as a guide is Reflections on the Revolution in France, and I can't say you conflict with anything I remember of that.

But in the modern conservative context, Goldwater and Reagan are more relevant. As are, on the intellectual side, William F. Buckley, Jr., Russell Kirk, Frank S. Meyer, James Burnham, Thomas Sowell, Richard M. Weaver, Wilmoore Kendall and Eric Voegelin.

I highly recommend this book: Did You Ever See a Dream Walking?, an anthology of the best conservative thought, edited by William F. Buckley, Jr. It's out of print, but Amazon has plenty of used copies and your local public library may have it.
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Last edited by Izdaari; 02-22-2007 at 11:22 AM.
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