 |
|

02-20-2007, 11:13 PM
|
 |
Political Junkie
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Pacific NW, USA
Posts: 282
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by dove85
As usual the conservitives are talking out of both sides of their mouths killing is killing rather in a foolish war like the one in Iraq or having an abortion Concervitives need to get some education on both/
|
Where did you get the silly idea that conservatives were supposed to be against killing?
If you got it from the 10 Commandments, be aware that the KJV's "Thou shalt not kill" is a mistranslation; the Hebrew word used is the word that specifically means murder, and accordingly, most later translations render it as "You shall not commit murder" or something very similar.
Conservatives, Christians (except for a few pacifist denominations based upon that faulty translation, which are a small minority) and Jews, have never had a problem with killing in self-defense, in lawful execution or in war.
And while conservatives usually do favor executing the heinously guilty, there is no inconsistency between that and opposing the execution of the innocent.
__________________
"You have rights antecedent to all earthly governments; rights that cannot be repealed or restrained by human laws; rights derived from the Great Legislator of the Universe." - John Adams.
Last edited by Izdaari; 02-20-2007 at 11:17 PM.
|

02-20-2007, 11:48 PM
|
 |
Machiavelli Incarnate
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Mid-south
Posts: 12,112
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by fenianforever1689
This is the red herring that Cat's Meow threw out a long time ago in this thread.
Where did he ever say that he was a "strict constructionist" or any other kind of constructionist for that matter?
|
You seem to have some 'train wrecks' of your own...
Hmmm...you are the one who posted the article and the proof is right here, read your own first post to the thread again...the following is from the SFC article quoting him in South Carolina:
Quote:
|
McCain also vowed that if elected, he would appoint judges who "strictly interpret the Constitution of the United States and do not legislate from the bench."
|
This is clearly rhetoric of a constructionist. Do you even know what a constructionist is at this point? Look at the phrase in bold type!
Quote:
|
Opposing Roe v. Wade hardly qualifies one as a constructionist.
|
The idea of the 'activist judge' clearly qualifies a person as a constructionist. It is a bunch of jingoistic crap that that people throw up when cornered...
Quote:
Originally Posted by fenianforever1689
The main point of this thread in my view {Cat's Meow"} is the dishonesty in which the San Francisco Chronicle dealt with the headline.
|
Dishonesty...  You might not like a pro-choice view but it is not dishonest in what they reported.
|

02-21-2007, 12:56 AM
|
 |
Political Junkie
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Pacific NW, USA
Posts: 282
|
|
Quote:
Quote:
McCain also vowed that if elected, he would appoint judges who "strictly interpret the Constitution of the United States and do not legislate from the bench."
This is clearly rhetoric of a constructionist. Do you even know what a constructionist is at this point? Look at the phrase in bold type!
|
Rhetoric is one thing; actions are another. If McCain really did do that, he'd be appointing judges who, given the chance, would declare his pet project, McCain-Feingold, unconstitutional. I don't see that as likely.
__________________
"You have rights antecedent to all earthly governments; rights that cannot be repealed or restrained by human laws; rights derived from the Great Legislator of the Universe." - John Adams.
|

02-21-2007, 08:25 AM
|
|
Political Mastermind
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,107
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by fenianforever1689
Overturning ROE is not outlawing abortion.
|
Absolutely true. The Republicans say they cannot legislate against abortion until Roe is overturned. But how can the Supreme Court issue a ruling except when a legal case is before it? What opportunity can the Court have to overturn Roe, if no law against Roe comes before it? And if the Republicans won't legislate against Roe, how can any law against Roe ever reach the Court?
In the decades since the Roe decision came down, the Republicans have controlled the White House and both Houses of Congress and they have yet to effectively put any legislative restrictions on abortion. So why should anyone believe the Republicans will ever do so?
Also, all but 2 of the justices to sit on the Supreme Court since the Roe decision were appointed by Republicans, and yet the Court still cannot muster a majority to overturn Roe. Just what are the Republicans waiting for?
|

02-21-2007, 08:29 AM
|
|
Political Mastermind
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,107
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Izdaari
In the case of a Congresscritter, I define it by ACU ratings. Somebody with a 100% rating is 99.99% likely to be a conservative.
|
Until they want to be President and erroneously believe they must attract voters from the large pool of moderates the media keeps telling us about.
BTW: What issues does the ACU use to define conservatism?
|

02-21-2007, 08:32 AM
|
|
Political Mastermind
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,107
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Izdaari
Where did you get the silly idea that conservatives were supposed to be against killing? 
|
Actually a true conservative will always be concerned about justice and effecting justice may require some killing.
|

02-21-2007, 08:37 AM
|
 |
Political Junkie
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Pacific NW, USA
Posts: 282
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by flaja
Until they want to be President and erroneously believe they must attract voters from the large pool of moderates the media keeps telling us about.
BTW: What issues does the ACU use to define conservatism?
|
http://www.acuratings.org/
Click on "Description of Votes Scored" for a list of the congressional votes the rating is based on.
__________________
"You have rights antecedent to all earthly governments; rights that cannot be repealed or restrained by human laws; rights derived from the Great Legislator of the Universe." - John Adams.
|

02-21-2007, 05:36 PM
|
|
Political Mastermind
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,107
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Izdaari
|
The ACU is far from conservative by my standards.
Quote:
1
New Interstate Tolls – Surface Transportation Reauthorization. HR 3 (Roll Call 59) The House rejected an amendment that would have authorized new tolls on any existing toll road or newly constructed lane on the interstate system to lower congestion or improve air quality. It also would have allowed new, toll-eligible express traffic lanes. ACU favored this amendment, which was rejected 155-265 on March 9, 2005.
|
So this conservative organization was in favor of new/higher taxes?
Quote:
5
CAFE Standards – Energy Policy. HR 6 (Roll Call 121) The House rejected an amendment that would have required the Transportation Department to issue regulations raising fuel efficiency standards to at least 33 miles per gallon in automobiles manufactured by model year 2015. ACU opposed the amendment, which was rejected 177-254 on April 20, 2005.
|
The ACU’s stand on CAFE standards is not what I would accept as the conservative position. As a conservative I want to reduce our dependence on oil because I don’t want to be dependent on countries that are potentially hostile to the U.S. I also want to curtail our dependence on the personal automobile because this dependence facilitates urban sprawl which makes it difficult to have close-knit communities that are necessary for societal cohesion. And I am in favor of conserving natural resources for future use.
Quote:
6
ANWR Leasing – Energy Policy. HR 6 (Roll Call 122) The House rejected an amendment that would have prevented leases for oil and gas exploration in a small portion of the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. ACU opposed the amendment, which was rejected 200-231 on April 20, 2005.
|
Again rejecting this amendment is not the conservative position because it promotes the wanton use of natural resources (and likely does so in a manner that endangers the natural environment to an unacceptable extent).
Quote:
9
Natural Gas Moratorium – Fiscal 2006 Interior and Environment Appropriations. HR 2361 (Roll Call 192) The House rejected an amendment that would have lifted the moratorium on natural gas production in the Outer Continental Shelf. ACU favored the amendment, which was rejected 157-262 on May 19, 2005.
|
Again, lifting the moratorium is not the conservative position because it discourages natural resource conservation.
Quote:
11
Ten Commandments Court Ruling – Fiscal 2006 Commerce-Justice-Science Appropriations. HR 2862 (Roll Call 257) The House adopted an amendment that would nullify a ruling by a U.S. District Court in Indiana that a monument representing the Ten Commandments must be removed from a county courthouse. ACU favored the amendment, which was adopted 242-182 on June 15, 2005.
|
Congress has no constitutional power to nullify a court ruling simply by saying the ruling is null. If a specific law was struck down, Congress can re-write it. Otherwise the only way to overrule a court ruling is amending the constitution.
Quote:
12
Firearms Exportation – Fiscal 2006 Commerce-Justice-Science Appropriations. HR 2862 (Roll Call 265) The House rejected an amendment that would have prohibited the exportation of non-automatic or semi-automatic 50 caliber firearms. ACU opposed the amendment, which was rejected 149-278 on June 16, 2005.
|
I do not find an absolute right to own or trade guns in the Constitution. This amendment was reasonable.
Quote:
17
Medical Malpractice – Passage. HR 5 (Roll Call 449) The House passed a bill capping non-economic and punitive damages that plaintiffs and their attorneys receive in medical malpractice cases. Punitive damages would be barred against makers and distributors of medical products if those products were approved by the Food and Drug Administration. The bill does not pre-empt state damage caps but imposes federal caps where states do not have their own. The bill limits attorneys’ contingency fees. ACU favored the bill, which passed on July 28, 2005.
|
Medical malpractice is a matter of what’s right and wrong, not what’s left or right. My grandmother died after she was given an overdose of blood pressure medication in a rehab hospital/nursing home. But, then our lawyer botched the lawsuit. A plague on both their houses.
Quote:
20
Oil Refinery Construction – Passage. HR 3893 (Roll Call 519) The House passed a bill streamlining approvals for refinery expansion and construction projects. It requires the President to designate federal sites for new oil refineries and allows the federal government to pay new refineries for the costs due to lawsuits and government regulations. Price gouging on gasoline is banned in times of emergencies. ACU favored the bill while recognizing that it contains some questionable provisions. The bill passed 212-210 on October 7, 2005.
|
This sounds like nothing but a federal subsidy for big business and as such it cannot be legitimately supported by conservatives.
Quote:
23
Online Freedom of Speech – Passage. HR 1606 (Roll Call 559) The House rejected an attempt to exempt the Internet, including blogs and e-mail, from the definition of “public communication” and thus subject to Federal Election Commission regulation and disclosure requirements. ACU favored the bill, which was rejected 225-182 on November 2, 2005. Although the bill got a majority, under House procedures a two-thirds vote was required.
|
I don’t know that I understand what this bill was meant to accomplish. However, I am opposed to placing any financial, or legal liability burden on political speech. And I don’t consider this to be liberal-conservative issue.
Quote:
24
Deficit Reduction Act. HR 4241 (Roll Call 601) The House passed a bill to reduce the FY 2006 deficit. Among many other provisions, it allowed oil and natural gas leasing and pre-leasing activities for Outer Continental Shelf areas, terminated subsidies for broadband telecommunications services in rural areas, and provided for energy production on a small portion of the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, and established a national mining and minerals policy. ACU favored the bill, which passed 217-215 on November 18, 2005.
|
Again we don’t need the possible energy resources of the ocean floor as long as other alternatives have not been developed.
|

02-21-2007, 08:11 PM
|
|
Machiavelli Incarnate
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,777
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reynard1967
Not really to far off.....China, It's on the way there.
|
You equate China and the US?
|

02-21-2007, 09:25 PM
|
 |
Political Guru
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: on the Pac. coast
Posts: 779
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by flaja
Absolutely true. The Republicans say they cannot legislate against abortion until Roe is overturned. But how can the Supreme Court issue a ruling except when a legal case is before it? What opportunity can the Court have to overturn Roe, if no law against Roe comes before it? And if the Republicans won't legislate against Roe, how can any law against Roe ever reach the Court?
In the decades since the Roe decision came down, the Republicans have controlled the White House and both Houses of Congress and they have yet to effectively put any legislative restrictions on abortion. So why should anyone believe the Republicans will ever do so?
Also, all but 2 of the justices to sit on the Supreme Court since the Roe decision were appointed by Republicans, and yet the Court still cannot muster a majority to overturn Roe. Just what are the Republicans waiting for?
|
Good post. You said it all. They are hypocrits.
|
| Thread Tools |
|
|
| Display Modes |
Linear Mode
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|
|