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04-19-2008, 06:22 PM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Join Date: Oct 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by polarbear31
it is amazing everyones ability to pick and choose the information that backs up there point, THE TEACHER IN QUESTION WAS AT FIRST MADE TO REMOVE THE TEN COMMANDMENTS FROM A COLLAGE ON THE CLASSROOM WALL, does this not register as a sign that the bible represents more than just a personal use item ??
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Why? Was he teaching Jewish law from them? Or is society getting so PC that the very mention of something, in religious text, makes it forbidden? I'm not religious, don't believe in organized religion, but to condemn everything mention by a religion is pretty fucking stupid. Next it will be fat people because Buddha is portrayed as rotund.
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04-19-2008, 10:41 PM
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Political Guru
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Join Date: Jan 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 36shadow
Yes it would make a difference because this god damn country did was not built on frigen muslim beliefs or morals nor do the laws etc. reflect that. If I were him I would take down the ten commandments Make another collage and just change the words ever so slightly and name it something like morals to live by. Would that be ok or is it against the radicals seculars to teach kids good morals or is it only a good thing when it is acceptance of homosexuals. This guy aint preaching to these kids and as much as a fucken doctor has the right not to give an abortion or morning after pill this guy has a right to have a damn bible on his own desk.
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radical seculars? the point of the rule dividing church from state is to keep zealots from perversing the core curriculum with religious hocus pocus, "frigen
muslims" okay so in your mind everything but the christian book and commandments should be permissible in public schools because historically the bible played more of a role in the the creation of the US. well maybe the bible and the commandments would be better displayed in a history lesson as influential items during the organization of our government, but there is no good excuse to abuse the education system and the trust of the parents of these children with the introduction of this mans personal religion to these young people this type of behavior is called brainwashing and a gross abuse of his responsibilities and code as a teacher, if your are for a church run state then just come out and say it otherwise you have to agree that this is a breach of code
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04-19-2008, 11:09 PM
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Political Mastermind
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: California
Posts: 2,180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rob
Oh yes the terrible ten commandments must come down, so that people will not understand where the rule of law started.
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Rule of law did not start with the 10 commandments.
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04-20-2008, 12:34 AM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodecea
Rule of law did not start with the 10 commandments.
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The rule of law started from christian morals and values in this country and the ten commandments is part of that belief so in a manor of speaking yes it did.
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Live your life so that when you die.
The world cries. the shadow
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04-20-2008, 12:36 AM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by polarbear31
radical seculars? the point of the rule dividing church from state is to keep zealots from perversing the core curriculum with religious hocus pocus, "frigen
muslims" okay so in your mind everything but the christian book and commandments should be permissible in public schools because historically the bible played more of a role in the the creation of the US. well maybe the bible and the commandments would be better displayed in a history lesson as influential items during the organization of our government, but there is no good excuse to abuse the education system and the trust of the parents of these children with the introduction of this mans personal religion to these young people this type of behavior is called brainwashing and a gross abuse of his responsibilities and code as a teacher, if your are for a church run state then just come out and say it otherwise you have to agree that this is a breach of code
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If teaching kids to love thy neighbor or not to steal or cheat etc. etc. is brainwashing to you. Well I think that says it all now don't it. If he is not preaching out of that bible and he took the ten commandments down then I don't see the problem. And by the way the 1st amendmant was to ensure that a national religion could not be instituted by the govt and the nation could not be ruled by it. But never intended to keep religious influence completely out as the secularist would have you believe with the seperation of church and state bs. Show me in the declaration of independance , bill of rights constitution or any historical documents that says. "seperation of church and state completely"
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When you came into this world you cried.
Live your life so that when you die.
The world cries. the shadow
Last edited by 36shadow : 04-20-2008 at 12:41 AM.
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04-20-2008, 12:51 AM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,537
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rob
If the teacher was Muslim, then no one would say anything, because we have to embrace diveristy.
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Nice dodge there, rob.....No Ten Commandments, sorry buddy....keep them in your house if you need to see them. As far as the Bible goes, I'm inclined to say no. He is a teacher and a public official. It is likely kept in plain veiw for a reason. He can keep it in his own private office or teacher's lounge....
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Last edited by StormanNorman : 04-20-2008 at 01:05 AM.
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04-20-2008, 01:49 AM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Join Date: May 2006
Location: Oregon
Posts: 5,974
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StormanNorman
Nice dodge there, rob.....No Ten Commandments, sorry buddy....keep them in your house if you need to see them. As far as the Bible goes, I'm inclined to say no. He is a teacher and a public official. It is likely kept in plain veiw for a reason. He can keep it in his own private office or teacher's lounge....
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Really, good point SN. I was thinking in my inital post on this thread of him being allowed to have personal reading material available for breaks etc. Considering his public role, why not just keep his personal reading material gathered in a book bag.
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04-20-2008, 05:14 AM
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Political Mastermind
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,252
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rob
Ohio Teacher Refuses to Remove Bible From Students' View
Wednesday, April 16, 2008
[IMG]file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/user/Local%20Settings/Application%20Data/IM/Runtime/Message/%7B9EE6DD8F-1C6F-482F-A9A5-0D852F468231%7D/Show/service_ap_361.gif[/IMG]
MOUNT VERNON, Ohio —
An Ohio middle school teacher says he won't obey an order to remove a Bible from view of students.
John Freshwater said Wednesday he agreed to remove a collage from his classroom that included the Ten Commandments, but that asking him to remove the Bible on his desk goes too far.
Officials with the Mount Vernon School District say they don't oppose religion but are required by the U.S. Constitution not to promote or favor any set of religious beliefs.
Freshwater says being forced to keep the Bible out of sight would infringe on his rights.
Mount Vernon is about 40 miles northeast of Columbus.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,351529,00.html
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rob, I find you to be very reasonable. lets work towards some common ground. The constitutionality of the issue is one conservatives and liberals love to debate. But, on a personal level, I hear stories like this more often on the news than real life. My belief, I mean obviously sometimes news is fake, but specifically this type of news is over exaggerated across the board to outrage Christians. Here is where I think we can find some common ground, first that Christians get outraged REALLY easily, and secondly, that this guy is clearly a big wet pussy.
Now, he loves the generality of the case, but surely the specific are lost in the news articles. Specifics like, "this guy was a whiny pussy looking for a stupid jesus fight". I went to one of the most liberal public schools in Los Angeles, and people and their religions were respected fully. This is why I find it hard to believe that in OHIO! of all places, this would happen the way its been spelled out.
And lastly, where hopefully I can get you to agree, that regardless of the morality (clearly the guy was in the right, he should be allowed to read the Bible), the purpose of this type of news is to provoke a sense of "we're losing it all" in Christians, to increase their fervor, increase their votes. And Christians notoriously vote with their Bible not their brains. My explanation isn't a conspiracy, its really just Occam's razor.
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04-20-2008, 05:25 AM
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Political Mastermind
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Somewhere between the Left and Right
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If the person were a Muslim and the book was the Koran no one would dare say a word about it. That's racial discrimination, but if it's an American and the Bible that's not allowed..
Welcome to the NEW AMERICA.... duhhhhh 
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04-20-2008, 08:07 AM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: SW Oklahoma
Posts: 13,606
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanite
rob, I find you to be very reasonable. lets work towards some common ground. The constitutionality of the issue is one conservatives and liberals love to debate. But, on a personal level, I hear stories like this more often on the news than real life. My belief, I mean obviously sometimes news is fake, but specifically this type of news is over exaggerated across the board to outrage Christians. Here is where I think we can find some common ground, first that Christians get outraged REALLY easily, and secondly, that this guy is clearly a big wet pussy.
Now, he loves the generality of the case, but surely the specific are lost in the news articles. Specifics like, "this guy was a whiny pussy looking for a stupid jesus fight". I went to one of the most liberal public schools in Los Angeles, and people and their religions were respected fully. This is why I find it hard to believe that in OHIO! of all places, this would happen the way its been spelled out.
And lastly, where hopefully I can get you to agree, that regardless of the morality (clearly the guy was in the right, he should be allowed to read the Bible), the purpose of this type of news is to provoke a sense of "we're losing it all" in Christians, to increase their fervor, increase their votes. And Christians notoriously vote with their Bible not their brains. My explanation isn't a conspiracy, its really just Occam's razor.
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I am not sure if this is cause Christians to become outraged or not but then Christians have no choice in being bombarded by non christian beliefs in the media as a whole. For instance we have laws against adultery but in society as a whole it is considered a normal action for someone to seek out releationships outside of their marriage.
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