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Old 03-28-2008, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by bodecea View Post
Who would provide standardization and quality control of the education our American children are getting?
Your tax dollars.
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Old 03-28-2008, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Bonzo'sCostar View Post
We are dealing with people who want to build a bridge to the 19th century. They have memorized "supply and demand," thus convincing themselves they have mastered economics. The appeal to rightards of simplistic solutions to everything is that it gives them a sense of power. They feel they understand something.

So, they long for the good, old days, when the gov't wouldn't take part of what they earn during their infrequent times of employment to pay for public education. I mean, what good did it do them? No, we don't need no education ... except for those who can afford it. America got along just fine in the 1800s without it. What was good enough for grandpa is good enough ...
Actually school vouchers are a more 20th century concept. The school system you support is a product of 19th century ideas.
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Old 03-28-2008, 11:40 PM
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Originally Posted by coyote View Post
Actually school vouchers are a more 20th century concept. The school system you support is a product of 19th century ideas.
19th century socialist ideas, at that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by satv365
In a perfect world, there would be no such thing as a Government School.
I disagree...we just need to let the Government with the ability to regulate education be the one who actually does it. Local Government.

How hard would it be for One Person to change a problem in the Federal Government? All but impossible. How hard would it be for One Person to change a problem in their City Government? Not terribly hard...I've done it twice over lesser problems than the future of my child.

If my education dollars were being spent SOLELY in my community, I'd have no problems with it. If my Schools were regulated SOLELY by the needs and wants and advice of the ACTUAL parents whose children are in that school system, I'd have no problem with it.

Not ONE swinging dick (or tit) in Congress has EVER had a child or grandchild or niece or nephew in the Public School System where I live. EVERY Seat on my City Council has a family member in the Public School System. Which body do you think is more capable of passing rules, standards, and regulations that best reflect what their constituents want? It's a no-brainer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by satv365
All schools would be private institutions and the Government would only provide vouchers and tuition for poor and the middle class, making rich families pay for their own education.
Somehow the rich should be fully responsible for their own children AND partially responsible for everyone else's, yet the middle-class and poor aren't even fully resaponsible for their OWN?

What do you base that on? Socialism? The same ideas that brought us our Public EduFactories in the first place?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bodecea
Who would provide standardization and quality control of the education our American children are getting?
In my version, the people whose children attend the schools would set the standards by voicing their opinions, needs, ideas to their City/County Government.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oceanbreeze
Your tax dollars.
Tax dollars paid to who? Federal Government, who has no authority to collect taxes for education? State Government, who has the authority, but not the connection to each community needed to assess specific needs?

Tax dollars can't make ANY real contribution to education. We've squandered hundreds of billions, if not trillions, on EduFactories, and still they get worse and worse.

Whether you throw tax dollars at the "No Child Left Behind" propaganda, or the School Vouchers, or just literally throw it at the teachers themselves, money won't solve shit.

Accountability will. And you can't hold one body of government accountable for hundreds of millions of UNIQUE, INDIVIDUAL children. The only way to put quality into education is to give parents, who know their children best, as much voice as possible. And nowhere does a parent have as much voice as they do in their own community.

Public EduFactory Wardens have preached forever that the more parents get involved, the more the child benefits...time for them to put their money where their mouth is. Oh, wait - they can't, because the Federal Government has their hands tied, and their loyalty is to their Union, not their Students. In addition, most school districts are incorporated, and are run by pencil-jockeys who see nothing but numbers.

So, we combine Big Government, the #1 Nightmare in America, with Corporations, the #2 Nightmare in America, and Unions, the #3 Nightmare in America...stir 'em all together to create one HUGE ravenous politico-capitalist-socilaist Beast, and then...and then...give our children to them.

Oh yeah...and then...we wonder why our children have problems with sex, drugs, violence, illiteracy, you name it. It seems as if no matter how much money you give the politicians, corporations, and unions, it's like...they're not honest. Weird...let's throw MORE money at them. That's got to work if we try it several thousand times.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonzo's Costar
Parochial schools are less, and I understand that fundis feel the need for gov't help, but I'm against gov't sponsorship of religion. If you want a theocracy, move to Iran.
If the Government is giving money to people, that means it came from the People. The People still enjoy Freedom of Religion, last time I checked, so the People have the right to spend THEIR OWN money at ANY school that meets the educational guidelines required by law, regardless of what religion may ALSO be taught there.

How does being religious, and choosing a religious school, change the subjects that are required by law? 2+2=4 whether you believe in God or not. I've never seen an SAT score that was asterisked with a comment that said "Did well, but believes Jesus died for his sins".

As long as your precious Gov't standards are being met, what does it matter to you if the school teaches a specific religion in addition?

Do you think people on welfare should have to sign an affidavit saying they're atheists before you'll let your tax dollars go to them? Should Veteran's only receive disability pay if their dog tags say "NO PREF"? Those are your tax dollars going to religious people, too.
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old 03-29-2008, 12:30 AM
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Saint Wannabe:

I disagree...we just need to let the Government with the ability to regulate education be the one who actually does it. Local Government.

Right. Put the ignorant bible thumpers in charge of turning out the workers who will have us compete in a global market. Put people who struggled to pass basket weaving in high school, with too much time on their hands, in charge of what kids need to learn. Let's turn the education system over to resentful idjits who couldn't learn enough to prevent them from swallowing rightard simplicities. Let's turn it over to people who blame their ignorance on communist teachers, instead of their own laziness.
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Old 03-29-2008, 06:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Bonzo'sCostar View Post
Saint Wannabe:

I disagree...we just need to let the Government with the ability to regulate education be the one who actually does it. Local Government.

Right. Put the ignorant bible thumpers in charge of turning out the workers who will have us compete in a global market. Put people who struggled to pass basket weaving in high school, with too much time on their hands, in charge of what kids need to learn. Let's turn the education system over to resentful idjits who couldn't learn enough to prevent them from swallowing rightard simplicities. Let's turn it over to people who blame their ignorance on communist teachers, instead of their own laziness.
Errrr uhhhh you are competing in a global market now and Americans will be victorious or you will lose your job, your ho and your home.

Can you explain how a Homo anal sex education will help Americans compete in the global market?
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Old 03-29-2008, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Bonzo'sCostar View Post
Right. Put the ignorant bible thumpers in charge of turning out the workers who will have us compete in a global market. Put people who struggled to pass basket weaving in high school, with too much time on their hands, in charge of what kids need to learn. Let's turn the education system over to resentful idjits who couldn't learn enough to prevent them from swallowing rightard simplicities. Let's turn it over to people who blame their ignorance on communist teachers, instead of their own laziness.
So, you think that all cities and counties are led by Bible-thumpers? You think the idea of relocating to find a school best suited to you is not ALREADY common? And here's the best one...before 1980, the schools WERE run solely by the States and Local Governments. So, you think America only become a SuperPower in the global economy after 1980? Heh heh...that's funny. The literacy rate in America has steadily fallen since the Federal Government got involved; additionally, youth crime rates have increased, teen pregnancy has increased, and youth drug use has increased.

Seems the ignorance came FROM the Federal involvement of education, not because of its absence.

Ask your grandparents how many drug dogs sniffed around their schools...ask them how many schools had metal detectors at the doors, how many had policemen patrolling the grounds?

Yeah...schools have become gleaming bastions of inspiration since the Federal government got involved. It'd be a damned shame if we let them slip back into the hands of the People...you know back when illiteracy rates were around 1-2% in a BAD year? When drugs in school were isolated incidents instead of careers? When violence was playground bullying instead of armed assault, rape, and murder?

God, what a shame it would be to go back to that, because some children might accidentally learn religions or morals that YOU don't agree with.

The classic liberal mentality: No matter how bad things are, letting We the People handle their lives would just make it worse. We the People need to surrender MORE tax money and shut up about our problems...Uncle Sam will throw money at it and make it all better.

By the way, IF ignorant Bible thumpers were in charge of a city, county, or State, it would be because it's what the ignorant Bible thumpers of that area WANTED! Remember how elections and representation work? Whether you like a mindset or not, American communities have the right to elect like-minded leaders.
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Old 03-29-2008, 09:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wow View Post
Errrr uhhhh you are competing in a global market now and Americans will be victorious or you will lose your job, your ho and your home.

Can you explain how a Homo anal sex education will help Americans compete in the global market?
Great question and I wonder why he hasn't added his two cents.
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Old 03-29-2008, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by wow View Post
Errrr uhhhh you are competing in a global market now and Americans will be victorious or you will lose your job, your ho and your home.

Can you explain how a Homo anal sex education will help Americans compete in the global market?

Could you please link a state's curriculum that includes that? TIA
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Old 03-29-2008, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Bonzo'sCostar View Post
Saint Wannabe:

I disagree...we just need to let the Government with the ability to regulate education be the one who actually does it. Local Government.

Right. Put the ignorant bible thumpers in charge of turning out the workers who will have us compete in a global market. Put people who struggled to pass basket weaving in high school, with too much time on their hands, in charge of what kids need to learn. Let's turn the education system over to resentful idjits who couldn't learn enough to prevent them from swallowing rightard simplicities. Let's turn it over to people who blame their ignorance on communist teachers, instead of their own laziness.
Are you saying voucher programs are going to do this? Why do you believe that?
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Old 03-29-2008, 08:11 PM
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Why are vouchers needed? Just stop collecting school taxes, those already on the dole are collecting money for the kids, if required to spend it on education, the kids would finally get some benefit from it, rather than it being used for cigarettes, liquor, and crack.

As for vouchers desegregating anything, thats BS. You can't desegregate a group that keeps flooding into the same neighborhood, forming their little ethnic enclaves.
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