Why Do Schools Waste Time?

fedup2 · #1 (**permalink**) 02-26-2008, 03:54 AM

In raising three kids, in each level of school, each with different personalities, strengths, and weaknesses, I find that I am now trying to answer the same questions that I asked in my school years. I am seeing that much of what I was told would be used in my "day to day" adult life really isn't...and I knew it in High School.

Let's be honest, other than reading and writing (basic English skills), Math (including the basic concept of Algebra), History (the most interesting eras anyway)...what do people retain IF the field of work you go into is NOT one of these subjects? How many times do your kids bring you a homework question and you have to brush up on the subject to get an answer if it is NOT something you deal with on a day to day basis? I am not saying that we don't need our kids to be in school, but why do we insist on forcing topics that are not going to sink in, instead of focusing, strengthening and allowing them to excel in the ones they are interested in?

I think every child needs to have basic reading and writing skills..no question They need math skills...enough to funtion on the world (although the computer has lessened the load a bit) but they should be able to balance a budget, a checkbook.etc, measure, calculate figures..etc. They need to know enough in history and in science to know the world they live in..... But really, most of this stuff can be learned in K-6, when kids actually do want to learn and can be refreshed and repeated in the following years.

Now I am not saying let's have them go off to college to replace 7th-12th, but why not use 7th-12th to focus on the areas that they show the most strength in, instead of pushing a bunch of stuff that will not sink in. Most parents see the what subjects are strengths and what subjects are a constant battle by 5th or 6th grade. If the parents don't see it, surely the teachers do.

We don't all go off and do the same jobs, and we aren't expected to learn everyone else's job. I don't know how to replace the engine in my car, and I wouldn't dream of performing surgery on anyone soon...those aren't fields I am interested in...so you couldn't have paid me to learn them. We all have interests and passions to learn something...and those topics in comparison are effortless, because we want to learn them. There is a person to do every job in this world, so why do we insist on pushing them into fields that they repeatedly reject after years of trying.

If you have a child that Ace's Algebra and that is his/her strength can you imagine how much farther he/she could excel in that area if kids who have ZERO interest weren't taking up the teachers time. Same with science, history, and on and on.

Instead, our kids are labeled ADD, ADHD...whatever, but the truth is they are NOT INTERESTED. You can drug them up, you can modify their homework, you can seek counsling...but these same kids ALL have an area they are probably awesome in. My son is struggling in English, he cannot "break-down" of sentence and retain the info for all the money in the world..We couldn't get it to sink if we split his brain open and glued the words noun, verb, conjunction...etc. in. (of course...surgery isn't my thing so I don't try..lol) Now, put him on his Dirt Bike, he can out-ride, out-jump, and modify whatever he needs to, to ride in whatever conditions. He understands how the engine works and where it needs to rev to do what he is attempting to do. At 5 years old, he removed his own training wheels (without us knowing), got on his bike and rode. For him, the hands on stuff is just comes easy. In the academic area Math is a strength...until of course you start adding letters in with numbers and then it is a total bust. And when it becomes a bust, they stop being interested in the whole subject.

Now I don't say this with no knowlege or concept of how a kid in school thinks. They didn't have these labels when I was in school...but I can assure you, I'm pretty sure I would have fit in well with the ADD kids. By the time I was a Sophmore in High School, I pretty much gave up trying. I had the same Math strengths my son does, and like him, once they threw those letters into the equation....that strength was gone. And when that is the one subject you are strong in and that goes down the tubes....the standard teenage reaction after trying and trying and not getting anywhere, is to just give up. Getting a job had a better pay off then seeing an F on your report card, so that's what I did. Soon enough, I ended up getting a job in the accounting dept. of a company, went back to school, took college classes in accounting and not only moved up in the company that I worked for, but now run the accounting dept. of our business. So I did end up following the field of work that I had the strength in, the numbers came easy. When I followed my interest I got something out of it. (PS..I still say, in 20 years of accounting, running a business and family finances, Math, with accounting basics work just fine. I have never had to refer to an Algebra book to figure out my net income or taxes, So it is a crock to say we use algebra everyday -For every Algebra teacher who said rate of pay and hours worked is an Algebra problem needs to be smacked...its a simple math problem..don't embelish it)

The point in my lengthy education issues is this. If you want kids to look forward to going to school and actually find a passion in something they can enjoy doing for the rest of their lives, and if you want them to stay out of trouble and respect their teachers, as well as have self confidence....Stop pushing them away from wanting to learn and start focusing on the subjects that they WILL do well in. I can't think of any student who is disrespectful to a teacher in a class they are getting an A in and wanting to learn more in. Just the same, I can't imagine any adult disrespecting a boss that is continuing to promote and thank him/her for a job well done. It just isn't how people are...or most people anyway.

If you are parent of a kid in k-8, how much time are you spending helping with homework. It's a joke. And the teachers don't see it...BECAUSE IT CAME EASY FOR THEM...AND THEY FOLLOWED THEIR PASSION, SO THEY DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW ANYONE COULD STRUGGLE..

To me, this concept seems too easy to have been missed...so what are we missing? ....and please excuse any typos...it's late....not lack of education..

FromRussiaWithLove · #2 (**permalink**) 02-26-2008, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fedup2

In raising three kids, in each level of school, each with different personalities, strengths, and weaknesses, I find that I am now trying to answer the same questions that I asked in my school years. I am seeing that much of what I was told would be used in my "day to day" adult life really isn't...and I knew it in High School.

Let's be honest, other than reading and writing (basic English skills), Math (including the basic concept of Algebra), History (the most interesting eras anyway)...what do people retain IF the field of work you go into is NOT one of these subjects? How many times do your kids bring you a homework question and you have to brush up on the subject to get an answer if it is NOT something you deal with on a day to day basis? I am not saying that we don't need our kids to be in school, but why do we insist on forcing topics that are not going to sink in, instead of focusing, strengthening and allowing them to excel in the ones they are interested in?

I think every child needs to have basic reading and writing skills..no question They need math skills...enough to funtion on the world (although the computer has lessened the load a bit) but they should be able to balance a budget, a checkbook.etc, measure, calculate figures..etc. They need to know enough in history and in science to know the world they live in..... But really, most of this stuff can be learned in K-6, when kids actually do want to learn and can be refreshed and repeated in the following years.

Now I am not saying let's have them go off to college to replace 7th-12th, but why not use 7th-12th to focus on the areas that they show the most strength in, instead of pushing a bunch of stuff that will not sink in. Most parents see the what subjects are strengths and what subjects are a constant battle by 5th or 6th grade. If the parents don't see it, surely the teachers do.

We don't all go off and do the same jobs, and we aren't expected to learn everyone else's job. I don't know how to replace the engine in my car, and I wouldn't dream of performing surgery on anyone soon...those aren't fields I am interested in...so you couldn't have paid me to learn them. We all have interests and passions to learn something...and those topics in comparison are effortless, because we want to learn them. There is a person to do every job in this world, so why do we insist on pushing them into fields that they repeatedly reject after years of trying.

If you have a child that Ace's Algebra and that is his/her strength can you imagine how much farther he/she could excel in that area if kids who have ZERO interest weren't taking up the teachers time. Same with science, history, and on and on.

Instead, our kids are labeled ADD, ADHD...whatever, but the truth is they are NOT INTERESTED. You can drug them up, you can modify their homework, you can seek counsling...but these same kids ALL have an area they are probably awesome in. My son is struggling in English, he cannot "break-down" of sentence and retain the info for all the money in the world..We couldn't get it to sink if we split his brain open and glued the words noun, verb, conjunction...etc. in. (of course...surgery isn't my thing so I don't try..lol) Now, put him on his Dirt Bike, he can out-ride, out-jump, and modify whatever he needs to, to ride in whatever conditions. He understands how the engine works and where it needs to rev to do what he is attempting to do. At 5 years old, he removed his own training wheels (without us knowing), got on his bike and rode. For him, the hands on stuff is just comes easy. In the academic area Math is a strength...until of course you start adding letters in with numbers and then it is a total bust. And when it becomes a bust, they stop being interested in the whole subject.

Now I don't say this with no knowlege or concept of how a kid in school thinks. They didn't have these labels when I was in school...but I can assure you, I'm pretty sure I would have fit in well with the ADD kids. By the time I was a Sophmore in High School, I pretty much gave up trying. I had the same Math strengths my son does, and like him, once they threw those letters into the equation....that strength was gone. And when that is the one subject you are strong in and that goes down the tubes....the standard teenage reaction after trying and trying and not getting anywhere, is to just give up. Getting a job had a better pay off then seeing an F on your report card, so that's what I did. Soon enough, I ended up getting a job in the accounting dept. of a company, went back to school, took college classes in accounting and not only moved up in the company that I worked for, but now run the accounting dept. of our business. So I did end up following the field of work that I had the strength in, the numbers came easy. When I followed my interest I got something out of it. (PS..I still say, in 20 years of accounting, running a business and family finances, Math, with accounting basics work just fine. I have never had to refer to an Algebra book to figure out my net income or taxes, So it is a crock to say we use algebra everyday -For every Algebra teacher who said rate of pay and hours worked is an Algebra problem needs to be smacked...its a simple math problem..don't embelish it)

The point in my lengthy education issues is this. If you want kids to look forward to going to school and actually find a passion in something they can enjoy doing for the rest of their lives, and if you want them to stay out of trouble and respect their teachers, as well as have self confidence....Stop pushing them away from wanting to learn and start focusing on the subjects that they WILL do well in. I can't think of any student who is disrespectful to a teacher in a class they are getting an A in and wanting to learn more in. Just the same, I can't imagine any adult disrespecting a boss that is continuing to promote and thank him/her for a job well done. It just isn't how people are...or most people anyway.

If you are parent of a kid in k-8, how much time are you spending helping with homework. It's a joke. And the teachers don't see it...BECAUSE IT CAME EASY FOR THEM...AND THEY FOLLOWED THEIR PASSION, SO THEY DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW ANYONE COULD STRUGGLE..

To me, this concept seems too easy to have been missed...so what are we missing? ....and please excuse any typos...it's late....not lack of education..

I couldn't agree with you more. I don't have kids yet but I do have a 16-year old sister and I deal with this issue on a weekly basis. In fact, my fiance and I stayed up until 1:30 a.m. one night last week helping her write a WWI paper for her AP Euro class (on the phone, by the way, because we live in a different state). My fiance majored in history and on his way to law school, while I am getting a graduate degree in international relations, majored in political science and minored in history. My parents wouldn't even know where to begin helping her write that paper! My dad is a computer engineer and my mom is a beautician, and though both may know some things about WWI, they are not informed enough about the subject matter to write a paper on it.

When I was in high school, I absolutely hated most of the classes I had to take: chemistry, physics (I am not going to be a chemist, or a physicist, or plan to go to medical school--I wouldn't know the first thing about surgeries either

), French...parlez-vous...who cares? (I was already born with a foreign language, making me bilingual, why do I have to learn another one?), I have yet to use any of my Algebra I and II, and Geometry skills in everyday life. On the other hand, I not only absolutely enjoyed my english and social studies classes but I excelled in them, and surprise, surprise, I continued with that track in my graduate work.

The education system definitely needs restructuring. What I propose is having an orientation (or something like it) where instead of kids walking through the halls, with an older student telling them where the gym is (hello, read a map), I would have a counseling session with each entering student and may be a test of somekind measuring their academic strengths and then taylor classes based on those results.

fedup2 · #3 (**permalink**) 02-26-2008, 01:50 PM

I really think that if our Board of Education took these ideas much more seriously grades, college enrollments and the economy would stay up and crime, welfare and the amount of wasted Federal funds in this country go and stay down.

Many people in this world have made millions, legally and without a college degree or even a High School Diploma.

And I can't imagine the number of Teens who turn their back on what they ARE or have the potential to be great at, because they can't force themselves to get through the GE years of college. They end up doing a job they don't care much for while missing out on what they really want to learn more about.

Maybe we would have already figured out the cure for Cancer or Aid's, had that student or that group of students not been put off on college because they couldn't get geography and French to sink in.

The school system told Einstien he was retarded. His story alone should have been a thump on the head to our School Officials, but it wasn't. Now they just give those "retarded" people (perhaps Einstien jr's) pills. So they themselves have learned nothing.

cliffrocks · #4 (**permalink**) 03-20-2008, 03:34 PM

Fedup2 ,I understand the frustration, but part of your opening post is exactly
HOW I would handle a working solution. Send the rug rats to college @ 7-12.
I imagine that provokes laughter or shock on all who read this, but Thomas Jefferson ,James Otis, John Adams, many involved in the history of of our nations beginnings, all went to college around age 12,13 & 14.
and I say what the hell let some of our kids if not all ,do that again.
Shit,most of them are gonna be grandparents anyway by age 30,they might as well
have the opportunities sooner rather than later to be educated.
I am not sure why they insist on everyone knowing certain maths and sciences
either, we could sure all use some law studies,since government manipulates the law so well while fucking everybody.

Carson · #5 (**permalink**) 03-20-2008, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cliffrocks@arkansas.net

Fedup2 ,I understand the frustration, but part of your opening post is exactly
HOW I would handle a working solution. Send the rug rats to college @ 7-12.
I imagine that provokes laughter or shock on all who read this, but Thomas Jefferson ,James Otis, John Adams, many involved in the history of of our nations beginnings, all went to college around age 12,13 & 14.
and I say what the hell let some of our kids if not all ,do that again.
Shit,most of them are gonna be grandparents anyway by age 30,they might as well
have the opportunities sooner rather than later to be educated.
I am not sure why they insist on everyone knowing certain maths and sciences
either, we could sure all use some law studies,since government manipulates the law so well while fucking everybody.

point being schools waste time so they can rob us of more money

bodecea · #6 (**permalink**) 03-20-2008, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carson

point being schools waste time so they can rob us of more money

I tell you this, not to be mean, but to tell the truth...your lack of a well rounded education shows.

cliffrocks · #7 (**permalink**) 03-20-2008, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bodecea

I tell you this, not to be mean, but to tell the truth...your lack of a well rounded education shows.

WELL, give the guy a break, he probably went to public school, as did most of us in here. In my esteem ,the ONLY thing that rounds any of us in this chat room out education-wise,is a willingness to think for ourselves that other poor bastards simply do not have.

DammitBoy! · #8 (**permalink**) 03-20-2008, 11:42 PM

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.

What your children get out of their education is for the most part up to you the parent. School should be more about learning how to learn, not how to memorize.

Teach your children to love to learn and they won't turn out like crowley and his ilk.

---

Or take the easy route and send your kids to a vo-tech school where they can learn to push a broom.

fedup2 · #9 (**permalink**) 03-21-2008, 01:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cliffrocks

Fedup2 ,I understand the frustration, but part of your opening post is exactly
HOW I would handle a working solution. Send the rug rats to college @ 7-12.
I imagine that provokes laughter or shock on all who read this, but Thomas Jefferson ,James Otis, John Adams, many involved in the history of of our nations beginnings, all went to college around age 12,13 & 14.
and I say what the hell let some of our kids if not all ,do that again.
Shit,most of them are gonna be grandparents anyway by age 30,they might as well
have the opportunities sooner rather than later to be educated.
I am not sure why they insist on everyone knowing certain maths and sciences
either, we could sure all use some law studies,since government manipulates the law so well while fucking everybody.

Now I wouldn't say send them to college in the 7th grade...but 7th - 12th should be pushing them "in their" strengths to learn as much as they can so that college IS important. I just can't imaginge how many talented people missed out because they couldn't get through the garbage in High School...and had not interest in college. I also wonder if our crime rates would be lower too. I agree 100% on the grandparent before 30 though...maybe if those people weren't so turned off by school in jr high and high school they would have had a better plan.

fedup2 · #10 (**permalink**) 03-21-2008, 01:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DammitBoy!

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.

What your children get out of their education is for the most part up to you the parent. School should be more about learning how to learn, not how to memorize.

Teach your children to love to learn and they won't turn out like crowley and his ilk.

---

Or take the easy route and send your kids to a vo-tech school where they can learn to push a broom.

I disagree with you. If you were lucky enough to have kids that got through school without too much trouble, grade wise, count your blessings. But realize that their are some kids who do not learn as easy as others. I have struggled with my son since Kindergarten...which he repeated. I have invested not only my time, but money into games, computers, tudoring, and state programs.. not to mention doctors, and medication. This kid can run circles against kids his age when it comes to sports, and/or mechanical things..but books...no way. We as a last attempt bribed him with a new dirt bike.....trust me, if he could have mastered it....he would have.

So, although I understand what you are saying, blaming the parents for this is an insult. My daughters do well in school and plan on going to college. If what you say is true, then all of my kids would be dropping out.