It seems that College as a system in todays America is a bit of a failure. The push to try to get every american college educated has essentially ruined the middle class. Wehereas an average student coming out of high-school in the fifties could at least get a solid union job in a Steel Mill back then, he now attends college, manages to get himself $50,000 in debt to essentially learn how to drink beer and have orgies, graduate and find himself in a job that pays commensurately less than what his old man's job payed and is soon to be outsourced. Meanwhile by inundating our institutions of higher learning, he has managed to create a deteriation of the classroom experience for the students who do actually belong in college, because professors are forced o teach at a much slower and less intellectual level in order to accomodate what is by and large an unqualified person. Can anyone defend our current system to me effectively? It seems like all this system does is make everybody worse off than they were before.

I don't know...

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Welcome to the forum Iron Virginian .

I have always said kids ought to retain at least a 2.8 average to stay in college. I do know a couple of colleges that regularly toss kids that aren't living up to their part of the bargain. Since tuition is up 40- 60% they can afford to toss kids now.

The real concern should be what I just heard on c-span this morning. The fact that almost 1/3rd of high schoolers drop out in this country. No doubt most of those people will not be going on to college. We need to figure out how to get them all out of high school.

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I think there should be some standard of GPA, otherwise a whole lot of time and effort is wasted not only on the part of the student, but on the part of the teachers as well. Let's face it...some people are meant to be bricklayers.

Now...that being said, many kids don't really apply themselves while in high school and only really realize the importance of their grades when they grow up. In that instance I can see a former C student becoming a straight A student in college if they have the chance.

So basically I guess I'm kind of wishy washy on this subject. I don't think a desire for more education should be thwarted, but I also think it wise to know one's limitations as well.

I agree.

I highly admire adults who go back later in life to obtain their college degree.

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"As a matter of opinion though possibly retarded WVpeach is still smarter than you. LOL"

I like your question, Iron Virginian! I can tell you exhibit actual intelligence. Jan makes a good point too.

What if we made entrance into college at a later age? Let's face it, we were all 18 at some point and probably not exactly the most mature. Most 18 year olds, leave mom and dad's house, go off to college, get that first taste of freedom, and screw off partying and pissing away (usually) mom and dad's money. What if from the ages of say, 18 to 21 (or perhaps a little later) students directly out of high school (who are not joining the military) would have to work somewhere. A little life experience and responsibility never hurts.

Work would teach them more responsibility than college at that age. This way, they could actually save up a little bit of money for school, saving them from a larger debt in the future. Also, by using one's own money, and not mom and dad's, it teaches the student responsibility because now it's his ass on the line. This would instill a true meaning of independence.

For those thinking that college isn't for them right after high school, this provides an opportunity to experience other things, rather than being forced into something they don't want to do. And if they decide that they enjoy working better than college, then more power to them.

This system may also help in determining and solidifying what students really want to do with their lives, as opposed to our current system where 18 year olds have no idea what to major in, what they're even interested in, and end up being on the 5 year plan because they changed majors 4 different times. Colleges would do away with the current system of your first two years being prerequisites, and replace such requirements with meaningful subjects provoking actual academic thought, based on the student’s future career interest. There is no need for a pre-law student to waste money taking Chemistry, for example; likewise, an engineering major should not have to take Political Systems and Ideas, unless of course, they want to.

Colleges should be, first and foremost, only for a select few who, not only have the determination to succeed, but also the caliber. They should be (exactly as they are called—though not necessarily practiced) institutions of higher learning.

Wow...I think you maybe on to something, FROM RUSSIA W/ LOVE. Indeed perhaps it is a question of maturity more so than ability. Focus and hard work often compensates for talent, a lesson the Bantam hockey team I coach has been learning. Your solution however could adversely affect birth rates, but that is a bit tangential. I like your thought process...you think in a way that is arousing.
I think High School education is a bit less pressing, however. Until we can regain industry in the United States, I'd be a bit uncertain as to how to train what should comprise the middle class. My issue with college education is that I no longer believe it is forging an intellectual elite that could be capable of undoing the mistakes of the currently empowered generation. In order for our nation to return to greatness we depend upon an intelligentsia able to foresee change, not merely able to react to changes with only a modicum of intelligent solutions.

I have 2 large D1 college both within 45 minutes of my home about.

Around here college educated people are working as boutique managers at the mall for 28K and 32K a year. Hardly worth the college education.

But they did what councilors told them. Since they couldn't find work with out the degree they got the degree a whole lot of debt and a not so great job.

Even home depot wants college graduates for employees now days.

This is all a trend like the housing bubble that cannot be sustained.

Things will have to change.

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That's my point exactly WVPeach.