I saw the Wal Mart thread on the religious thread and I have no problem with choice and chain stores that sell products primarily from other countries. I think a market should be consumer driven and if people like shopping Wal Mart they should have that option. I live just outside of one city and close to another smaller city. This smaller city is probably one of the most beautiful in the nation. Stone architecture, small curved streets. a roaring economy and mostly local businesses. McDonalds opened up and then went out of business. Community citizens preferred the many small quaint local hamburger shops that have fresh lettuce and home made buns and ripe red tomatoes on their lean free range burgers.

All of these local community businesses spend an enormous amount of time, energy and money to keep this city clean, crime free and wholesome. Last Sunday I hiked a park that was lovely, trash free and went for miles up into the mountains. Afterwards I had an early dinner at a small local Italian cafe with homemade pata and organic greens with home made dressing. Afterwards I drove home and along the freeway I could see a crowded black top parking lot at an Olive garden restaurant. Prices high at thsi place with heavily trans fat foods and pre cut bagged lettuce salds and pasta made on the east coast and packaged for 6 months. No ambience and yet I had just left a vine covered outdoor patio with a great fresh meal and paid less .

This city is an enticiing business opportunity. If someone starts a small business and they do it with quality and pride in their community it prospers. I personally prefer spending my dollar supporting my community.
We have musicians and theater productions that are normally unheard of in a city this size. This entire community puts so much effort into maintaining a crime free and clean wholesome local driven city-it is amazing. The only real problem is that most who visit want to move to this city and it si growing at an alarming rate.

I think Americans should vote with their dollar. If someone prefers spending more money to park in traffic along black top and eat faux food that was packaged on the east coast that is their choice and so be it. I will drive an additional 2 miles to support a family owned business where the owner takes community pride, contributes to the community and enhances that city besides offering a superior product.

Sam :
There are lots of American towns like you describe. I would chance to venture, most towns and cities start out that way. As population and industry grows, so does the need for convinience. That's when the 7-11's, fastfood restraunts, and national chain grocery stores move in.

We have local, coomunity theater, bars with local bands (the kind mainly meant to sit and listen, but as the audience gets drunk, the dancing begins), museums, both natural history, and art, even an observatory.....Not completely consumed by the fast paced, filthy environment associated with a moderately, to large sized city.

That's not to say though, capitalism in the form of large national, corperate chains hasn't also become a part of our local economy: 5 Super WalMarts, 5 United grocery stores (also 24 hr), countless convinience stores, a large mall with all the national department stores, Pennys, 2 Dillards, Sears, Beals, Mervyns and of course a hundred shops inside sporting everything from tennis shoes to music, to pets,optomitrists........you name it and it's there. There's even a couple of flee markets on weekends.

We are home to Texas Tech University too (being a college town also invites big business).

I do wish we had a vyable farmers' market....But that aside, I like my city.....
But this being an agrumentative forum, it's purpose is to nurture discussion and that particular thread about WalMart turned into something of a bitchfest......

I have never found another city quite like the one I live near however i hope you are correct. There is another city north of where I live that is filthy . has crime, wal mart every fast food place and is ugly with all black top parking lots and social problems.

I prefer the community based city that I describe and that is where my dolar goes. I have no problems for citizens who who prefer the latter-i hope we always have choice.

If someone wants to pay 25% more and eat garbage at Olive Garden and support someone in a city thousands of miles away that is their choice.

Personally the small place with homemade pasta and locally grown greens that is charming and truly cares for this community and volunteers and donates and buys local produce is where my dollar will go. Besides quality and beauty-those owners contribute and are truly invested in the community. Did you read the link posted on supportng America and its local economies?http://www.tradelocal.org/why_local_bus.htm

There are fewer and fewer places such as Sam describes, although some are left.

I think Katntx is correct, once the population reaches a certain threshold the major corporate players do want a piece of the pie. I'm sure they have models to determine when to enter a market.

I hope the town you are thinking of maintains its quality of living Sam, sounds like a very nice place....

I live in a city, but I try as much as possible to spend my dollars at the family owned businesses, which are fewer and fewer each year. I won't ever spend a penny at Walmart. Period. I don't care what they sell and how good the price is.

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Sam
You are implying that "big box" stores breed crime and filth. That is very unfair to say the least. Once again in a round about way you have attacked the very economic system that has allowed the growth of cities of all stripes. Not everyone can afford the luxury of "free range" beef (which is not always free range since the definition is not hard and fast), not everyone can afford to eat organic pasta or drink local mineral water.

Personally, I think your wonderful city is probably overloaded with snobs. I would rather live in my beautiful corner of the earth, the mountains of east Tennesee with its hard working, Walmart shopping, pickup truck driving honest citizens.

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Its better to have fussed and crabbed then never to have fussed at all - Lucy

It all goes back to choice.......One can choose to only spend money in locally owned and run businesses that stock only locally produced products...(A good, sound choice, I agree). One can choose to patronize large chain stores owned by global entities, which have the money to bring in the cheaper products and maintain longer "open for business" hours. In my personal case, I choose the first option when possible, however I would be lying if I said I didn't also use the big conglomerate establishments when convinience (time and distance) dictates. They, both forms of business, each hold their benefits. I am lucky I'm in a community that offers both.

I am well aware of areas in our country, where there has ceased to be an option. The town in which I was born is a very rural little town. They had a TG&Y and a United Supermarket, and everything else in town was just a locally owned and run "mom & pop" style stores. WalMart has come in, and is now about the only store in town. Granted, they still have United, and the WalMart is not a 24hr store, but only a couple of restraunts (oops they have Sonic, I forgot), but not even any real gas stations where they pump your gas and check the oil and air in the tires. There are about 3 convinience stores like 7-11 that sell gas. Aside from the Ford dealership and the Case/John Deer tractor dealership, not much else even exists. Oh, it's clean and hardly any crime to speak of, but it's a dying community. I would venture, most of the population is over 50yrs old, and if younger, they work in other towns. If your don't own a farm in the area, not alot of employment opportunities locally. It's sad to see that part of American heritage slip away....I am whistful

Your town sounds much like the "largest town" near my home, Newport TN. There is a Walmart, a Lowes, a dozen or so gas station/convience stores (Newport is exit 434 off I-40 in TN) but much of the industry (such as there was) is going away. Conagra still has a plant and distribution center here and Bush Beans is just outside of "town" but everyone else works in Dollywood/Sevierville/Pigeon Forge/Gatlinburg or Morristown or Knoxville. The old "home places" are being sold off by the kids to people like Sam to come in here and sip their $5.00 lattes and scrap off the mountain tops because the one behind it is a better view. (They did that in Pigeon Forge - they also are moving out of their high tax, crime infested crowded cities and building condos on top of one another and complaining that the locals are (1) stupid and (2) unwilling to pay the high taxes required to keep them in the lifestyle they believe they deserve)

The thing is those mom and pop stores that still exist are going out of business for the simple reason they can't compete with the big box stores. It may be lamentable but how do you tell a family of four with a yearly income of less than $35,000.00 that they have to spend $75.00 for a pair of shoes because the $20.00 ones from Walmart are not available. Do we take some of Sam's obviously substantial income and give it to the family so they can buy shoes or do we just let them go barefoot?

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Its better to have fussed and crabbed then never to have fussed at all - Lucy

Nathan:

I hate to hear about the economic and enviromental decline TN mountain areas are facing. It's not just happening in TN. I spent every summer from the year I was born til I was 18 yrs in CO (spent them from 12yrs on, working at a boarding/riding stablesnear my godparents' home). It's a "tourist trap" area, about ahour from Crested Butte CO.

It was a mountain, rural, quaint, locally owned business town for years. I took my son there (Gunnison CO) a few years ago while my folks were there one summer. It looks nothing like it did when I was a kid. While it is true, they now have a WalMart, I don't think that's been the whole cause of the lack of charm....I think much of it came from "out-of-towners", buying up so much of the town and turning it into a money making venture. They haven't respected the values that made Gunnison an inviting summer haven.

Crested Butte was a mountain hippie hang out in the 60's-70's...It became "chic" in the 80's. Since then, it's mainly Hollywood celebrity types building huge mansions and skiing condos. Streets are lined with overpriced souvinier crap. Clearly not a place WalMart would be welcome. Even the celebs venture to Gunnison for that........Yes Sam....even celebs shop at WalMart sometimes.

I think you missed my point in my original post. I spoke openly of having a choice and where my choice was. You see unlike many on this forum I do not care where celebs shop so what was your point in that comment?

Again I compared a less expensive quality eatery to a chain laden with transfats, low quality food and no character. People vote with their dollar-if some people enjoy that it is fine with me.

As far as saving money I support and feed two 6'1" feet tall muscular teenage sons. Personally I find it more economical and healthier to shop and co op for organic delightful produce and buy free range 4-H produced meat. True I could buy jumbo bags of cracker snacks with american cheese product cheaper at wal mart then a local grocery,but I do not buy that kind of food. If that is what some people want to eat I really do not care. It is all about choice.

I like supporting local farmers and that is where I spend my money. I was commenting on a city where this is possible and a value of that city so much so that McDonalds went out of business.

NF-I love tennessee and think it is a beautiful state. I think when you describe your region it sounds lovely.

Read my post-it was really about choice and I am happy enough people locally want the same choices I do so I have that available. This is not about snobs or spending more money. I am sure I spend less on food then if I filled my cart to the brim at Wal-mart with processed food.

I find myself in a Wal Mart about twice a year. There is nothing wrong with shopping at Wal Mart and I do not care where celebrities shop. I like supporting businesses that really care about the health and welfare of my community and promote its beauty. Is there something wrong with this choice?

I can go several miles north to a city that has super Wal Marts and every other chain. I might buy a garden hose or something -but overall feel fortunate to have another city where I can spend my money and it goes directly back into my community and families in my community.