Supporting America and your local economy

nathanbforrest45 · #21 (**permalink**) 07-24-2007, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam

NF- Where in the heck do you come up with you comments? I started a thread about supporting local economies and said nothing about 4-H being certified organic or anything beyond what each student chooses for their project.Try reading the thread.

You are the one who claimed to have (1) purchased your meat from a 4-H store or (2) purchased some lambs from a 4-H project. You are the one that implied that 4-H was free range or organic or whatever. I am merely pointing out that you are using a well known name in error. All you had to say was I bought free range meat from a grower that I had spent months researching with my two better than average sons etc etc and I could not have challanged you at all althought I would have thought you were full of shit. When you start claiming the 4-H has ANYTHING to do with anything other than being an organization to help kids in agriculture then you open yourself up to being challanged.

Actually, your original post became a screed against Walmart and then an attack on your less than wealthy neighbor who shopped at Walmart. I was the one that stated free range was meaningless because there are no standards in what is free range. You then started backtracking and claiming the 4-H connection.

Reynard1967 · #22 (**permalink**) 07-24-2007, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam

I saw the Wal Mart thread on the religious thread and I have no problem with choice and chain stores that sell products primarily from other countries. I think a market should be consumer driven and if people like shopping Wal Mart they should have that option. I live just outside of one city and close to another smaller city. This smaller city is probably one of the most beautiful in the nation. Stone architecture, small curved streets. a roaring economy and mostly local businesses. McDonalds opened up and then went out of business. Community citizens preferred the many small quaint local hamburger shops that have fresh lettuce and home made buns and ripe red tomatoes on their lean free range burgers.

All of these local community businesses spend an enormous amount of time, energy and money to keep this city clean, crime free and wholesome. Last Sunday I hiked a park that was lovely, trash free and went for miles up into the mountains. Afterwards I had an early dinner at a small local Italian cafe with homemade pata and organic greens with home made dressing. Afterwards I drove home and along the freeway I could see a crowded black top parking lot at an Olive garden restaurant. Prices high at thsi place with heavily trans fat foods and pre cut bagged lettuce salds and pasta made on the east coast and packaged for 6 months. No ambience and yet I had just left a vine covered outdoor patio with a great fresh meal and paid less .

This city is an enticiing business opportunity. If someone starts a small business and they do it with quality and pride in their community it prospers. I personally prefer spending my dollar supporting my community.
We have musicians and theater productions that are normally unheard of in a city this size. This entire community puts so much effort into maintaining a crime free and clean wholesome local driven city-it is amazing. The only real problem is that most who visit want to move to this city and it si growing at an alarming rate.

I think Americans should vote with their dollar. If someone prefers spending more money to park in traffic along black top and eat faux food that was packaged on the east coast that is their choice and so be it. I will drive an additional 2 miles to support a family owned business where the owner takes community pride, contributes to the community and enhances that city besides offering a superior product.

I work for Wal*Mart, God forgive me, and see things from the inside. I agree with you, the market will do what the dollar allows it to. Stop buying it and they will stop selling it as it is. I don't really blame Wal*Mart for it's practices. It merely shops the way it's customers do, if they can get it cheaper they will. WalMart says lower your cost to us so we can sell it cheaper. If the venders can find another way of lowering cost, great. Most don't even try. Labor is the expence you can exert the most control over, lay-offs or foriegn labor takes chunks out of labor expenses. Companies, regaurdless to the size are more like poor people than like rich ones. They have barrowed themselves into a hole. Along with investors, who at a whim sell stock and must be repayed, leave the faceless company no choice but to grow or die.

I am like you, I normally go for the small family store, resturaunt. But many people can not choose between dealing with someone they like or getting it cheaper.

nathanbforrest45 · #23 (**permalink**) 07-24-2007, 10:19 AM

Regarding Walmart and free choice. Recently I wanted to purchase four items related to camping. One was a foam mattress, one was a one burner backpacking stove, one was a single mantle backpacking lantern and the final item was a pressure control valve for my camper. I went to a local mom and pop hardware store for the pressure control valve. Their price was $20.00. I found the same thing at Walmart for $4.95. I went to the Coleman Outlet Store in Pigeon Forge TN for the mattress. Their price was $19.95. I found the same thing at Walmart for $6.97. I went to a hiking and backpacking outfitter, locally owned, in Asheville NC. The price for a single mantle lantern there was $65.00 and the price for a one burner 10,000 btu, with a control valve camp stove was $99.95. I found both items, exactly the same, at Walmart for $19.95 each.

My cost for buying locally would have been $204.90
My cost for buying at Walmart was $51.82.

Which would you have done?

Sam · #24 (**permalink**) 07-24-2007, 01:32 PM

For those items I would have probably made the choice you made NF if that is really the price difference. Re read the thread-I said it is about choice and who I choose to support when I can. I never implied anything about 4-H other then mentioning I bought it from a neighbor and it was very cost efficient. Again you showed an extreme example and in that instance I would probably make the choice you did. Read the examples I gave-Olive Garden (expensive crap food) vs local family less expensive high quality food. what would your choice be? Re read the thread-you are picking out parts and changing meanings..kind of silly really.

Sam · #25 (**permalink**) 07-24-2007, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SydneySteel

In 1990 My sister and I drove to Portland to visit her son there. We fell in love with the city and wanted very much to open a bed and breakfast there. We were knocked out by the price. Portland does a good job of discouraging "outsiders" from buying and/or starting a business there, family owned or not. It's a lovely place and quite community oriented, but they make it clear that while they encourage your visit, they do NOT encourage your permanent move. Nephew had to leave because there are so few jobs. We saw a sign somewhere that stated "Welcome to Oregon. Enjoy your visit. Do not move here." something like that. The price of real estate keeps that true.

Almost everyone falls in love with Oregon that visits and wants to move here. You are correct in that the entrance signs do say "Enjoy your visit." They do not say "Do not move here" however many Oregonians do feel that way. I do not live in Portland however it is a great city. When I moved here i had to re assure locals I was not from California. This entire community volunteers,supports local businesses,has our own militia, protects our air and water and is probably the most beautiful state in the union.The coast is dramatic in its cliffs,sea caves and white sand. The city I live in is the medical hub for a 500 mile radius and we have a leading medical center. We have theater and music festivals and small business is every sector is booming. There are a few smaller cities where crime is high and nuts abound. I stay away from those places.They attract every right wing and left wing nut group for some reason.That would be a different thread to describe this one strange city in Oregon.

Yes real estate has sky rocketed(I bought land,house and office building before the boom) -on the other hand this is a clean family oriented place with low crime. Where I live because people do support local business-if you work hard and start a business you will most likely be successful.The state is very protective of its water supply and most cities try to maintain natural beauty.

Politically it is moderate and as long as you are not criminal in your actions everyone is accepted and free speech is encouraged. My city is about 75% moderate conservative however Portland and Eugene are about 60% moderate left.

Sam · #26 (**permalink**) 07-24-2007, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reynard1967

I work for Wal*Mart, God forgive me, and see things from the inside. I agree with you, the market will do what the dollar allows it to. Stop buying it and they will stop selling it as it is. I don't really blame Wal*Mart for it's practices. It merely shops the way it's customers do, if they can get it cheaper they will. WalMart says lower your cost to us so we can sell it cheaper. If the venders can find another way of lowering cost, great. Most don't even try. Labor is the expence you can exert the most control over, lay-offs or foriegn labor takes chunks out of labor expenses. Companies, regaurdless to the size are more like poor people than like rich ones. They have barrowed themselves into a hole. Along with investors, who at a whim sell stock and must be repayed, leave the faceless company no choice but to grow or die.

I am like you, I normally go for the small family store, resturaunt. But many people can not choose between dealing with someone they like or getting it cheaper.

Right on Reynard-(a buckeye like me!)

katntx · #27 (**permalink**) 07-24-2007, 02:08 PM

Sam:

While it's noble (your shopping choices are now well documented) and lucky you live in a community that offers such choices, more extensively than many others, I'm wondering if you aren't a real estate agent (doubtful, since, by your own admission, "outsiders" aren't particularly welcome, as far as permanent residents are concerned) or maybe a travel agent/tourism promoter for your area? You do make it sound very charming.

Sam · #28 (**permalink**) 07-24-2007, 02:24 PM

I spent 9 years in school to do what I am doing right now and i love my work in healthcare.

I really am enthusiastic about this community. I have put my heart and soul into it and raised my sons here. Part of my enthusiasm for the tremendous product choices is that I love to cook. NF seems hung up on my 4-h raised lamb however I roasted it with fresh rosemary from my garden and paid less then if I had purchased feed lot meat at Wal mart. I guess that was my point.

I like having amazing products available at decent prices. I like purchasing them from local families who take pride in the community and use legal workers and no or minimal pesticides.

Anyway really the point is that a community is what the citizens put into it in terms of of the economy,voluteerism and pride. We are reaping the benefits locally.

Not all is perfect-most love the weather but the constant sunshine gets to me-i would prefer portlands climate.

nathanbforrest45 · #29 (**permalink**) 07-24-2007, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam

For those items I would have probably made the choice you made NF if that is really the price difference.

So, you think that I am making up these price differances? Like you are making up buying food products from the 4-H? You don't understand the issue here do you? You lied about where you buy your food. Why should I believe anything you say about the local fantasy land you claim to live in?

Sam · #30 (**permalink**) 07-24-2007, 02:28 PM

I lied about where I buy my food?!!!

Please quote the lie and let me see it.