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Old 07-04-2007, 09:15 PM
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Unhappy America, the land of opportunity?

Work hard an you'll get ahead.
Honesty is best policy.
A fair days pay for a fair days work.

Go to college and the skies the limit. Yeah right! Fair, honest, hard working, educated, just and considerate towards everyone. Color blind, judge based on character, merits and intelligence. A piece of paper, and a lot of student loan debt. The "American Dream" is paraded around, just as the proliferation of on-line degrees, "purchased degrees". Preying on the hopes and dreams of people (market). Those that have have. Those that have not, get out of denial. Hidden barriers, not on paper, but they're there. The establishment has and will do anything and everything possible to ensure you don't have an equal opportunity to achieve it. It's not what you know, but whom your affiliated with. It's hard if not possible to move out of the social economic class you are born in. My philosophy professor told me this a long time ago. Didn't believe him then, now older and wiser, its the truth. We're at the end of a cycle. All markets are mature, no more land to find and a population that is out of control, the j shaped curve and were close to the end of it. Moreover, I got my degree the traditional way. Link is as follows:

http://www.commondreams.org/views02/0428-01.htm
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Old 07-05-2007, 03:47 PM
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Tell this dribble to the hundreds of thousands of millions of legal immigrants that STILL make their way to our shores year after year.

One person has a back breaking experience, rolls over and gives up, so his experience must be a prerequisit for all things american. Whatever....

I'll tell you what, continue to sit on your ass, do nothing, and ensure that there remain MORE opportunities for the rest of us.

From the bottom of my heart, thanks for your support.
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Old 07-05-2007, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by gdfather02 View Post
Tell this dribble to the hundreds of thousands of millions of legal immigrants that STILL make their way to our shores year after year.

One person has a back breaking experience, rolls over and gives up, so his experience must be a prerequisit for all things american. Whatever....

I'll tell you what, continue to sit on your ass, do nothing, and ensure that there remain MORE opportunities for the rest of us.

From the bottom of my heart, thanks for your support.
To imply I'm sitting "on my ass", "do nothing" is absurd. The point is that of social mobility and the hidden barriers people of lower social economic status have to overcome. In many cases obstacles that our impossible to break. The article says it all. It's not about one person but a whole class of Americans. Moreover, I'd tell the "hundred of thousands of millions of legal immigrants" to go home, until we can enforce the laws on the books and further address the immigration issue.
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"I hope our wisdom will grow with our power, and teach us, that the less we use our power the greater it will be." Thomas Jefferson

"The conservative movement has been hijacked and turned into a globalist, interventionist, open borders ideology, which is not the conservative movement I grew up with." Pat Buchanan

"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government"
Thomas Jefferson

Last edited by basharp1; 07-05-2007 at 06:29 PM. Reason: Bold
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Old 07-05-2007, 07:22 PM
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To imply I'm sitting "on my ass", "do nothing" is absurd. The point is that of social mobility and the hidden barriers people of lower social economic status have to overcome. In many cases obstacles that our impossible to break. The article says it all. It's not about one person but a whole class of Americans. Moreover, I'd tell the "hundred of thousands of millions of legal immigrants" to go home, until we can enforce the laws on the books and further address the immigration issue.
You want to know "impossible", go to a country like, say, India, where the caste system is alive and well. This opinion piece would fit that country to a tee, as the lower dregs in India have no way in hell of ever making a name for themselves, ever. They are completely relegated to tasks such as living in slums, cleaning sewers, etc.... And if one of them was to ever become emboldened to try and leave their status, they would receive a beat down like you wouldn't believe....

Pretty sad, but, hey, that is their culture....
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"A committee is a group of people who individually can do nothing but together can decide that nothing can be done."
Fred Allen

"A government that robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul."
George Bernard Shaw

"Politics is the art of choosing between the disastrous and the unpalatable."
John Galbraith

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Old 07-05-2007, 07:35 PM
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Originally Posted by basharp1 View Post
To imply I'm sitting "on my ass", "do nothing" is absurd. The point is that of social mobility and the hidden barriers people of lower social economic status have to overcome. In many cases obstacles that our impossible to break. The article says it all. It's not about one person but a whole class of Americans. Moreover, I'd tell the "hundred of thousands of millions of legal immigrants" to go home, until we can enforce the laws on the books and further address the immigration issue.
Our culture has always had certain tools for insuring that the lower socio/economic stratas are not escaped. The tools used to be evident such as color, gender, etc., but with anti discrimination legislation, they have had to become much more stealthy. Now the primary tool is credit ratings when a good credit rating has nothing to do with how a person may or may not perform the duties of their job. An exception might be a position which deals with money or information trading. AND, a person of color automatically gets points deducted from their rating. Credit ratings determine who gets a job, who can or cannot rent an apartment, who can or cannot buy a house, rent a car, etc. And every time your credit rating is checked, it takes a hit. But, say you need to see a doctor and cannot pay cash at the office visit so apply for a credit card? That's a hit and points will be deducted and you still may not get the credit card. So in order to see the doctor, you don't pay a couple of bills. More hits. And around and around it goes....where it stops nobody knows. Imagine that your electric bill is breaking you because your house has insufficient insulation. You get an offer from a competing electric provider who gaurantees great savings. You can't afford huge insulation costs so you apply to the competitor. They don't just check your payment history with your current provider. They check your overall credit rating. Another hit. Then they notify your current provider that you are shopping around. Then they turn your application down. More hits. Then you are told by the insulation contractor that before he can insulate your attic, etc., you must have the house completely rewired first. Yay! Forget that. Your electrician friend has just had gender reassignment surgery and will be out for nearly a year. Then your vehicle won't start and you have a job or jobs waiting, and you're just screwed.
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Old 07-05-2007, 09:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basharp1 View Post
To imply I'm sitting "on my ass", "do nothing" is absurd. The point is that of social mobility and the hidden barriers people of lower social economic status have to overcome. In many cases obstacles that our impossible to break. The article says it all. It's not about one person but a whole class of Americans. Moreover, I'd tell the "hundred of thousands of millions of legal immigrants" to go home, until we can enforce the laws on the books and further address the immigration issue.
You know you seem to have a rather narrow view of immigration. Most Americans have no problem with legal immigrants.

As to your statement about barriers in place to hold people back, that is BS. In this county we allow all people to be educated in the public schools unlike some countries that only educate the ones deemed to have potential. Also it has been my experience that I limit myself more than anyone or anything in this country.
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Old 07-05-2007, 09:40 PM
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You know you seem to have a rather narrow view of immigration. Most Americans have no problem with legal immigrants.

As to your statement about barriers in place to hold people back, that is BS. In this county we allow all people to be educated in the public schools unlike some countries that only educate the ones deemed to have potential. Also it has been my experience that I limit myself more than anyone or anything in this country.
Rob, this is an article regarding social mobility in America or the lack there of. Its not just my opinion its a study that has been done and discussed in many other articles. People are there own worst enemy, that I agree. As it pertains to legal immigrants, the point I'm making is our system is broke. We need a moratorium on immigration until we can secure our borders. Study those laws that are currently in place and modify and implement new laws, if need, to ensure it is in the common interest of all Americans. You might look at the quote I posted by Teddy Roosevelt on his opinion of immigrants in America back in 1919, I believe its in the lobby section.
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"I hope our wisdom will grow with our power, and teach us, that the less we use our power the greater it will be." Thomas Jefferson

"The conservative movement has been hijacked and turned into a globalist, interventionist, open borders ideology, which is not the conservative movement I grew up with." Pat Buchanan

"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government"
Thomas Jefferson
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Old 07-05-2007, 09:45 PM
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Originally Posted by gdfather02 View Post
You want to know "impossible", go to a country like, say, India, where the caste system is alive and well. This opinion piece would fit that country to a tee, as the lower dregs in India have no way in hell of ever making a name for themselves, ever. They are completely relegated to tasks such as living in slums, cleaning sewers, etc.... And if one of them was to ever become emboldened to try and leave their status, they would receive a beat down like you wouldn't believe....

Pretty sad, but, hey, that is their culture....
Thats their culture and America is mine. America first, I could care less about India, China, and so on....... Did you read the link? Social mobility in America. The land of opportunity, or is it and for who, thats the question
__________________
"I hope our wisdom will grow with our power, and teach us, that the less we use our power the greater it will be." Thomas Jefferson

"The conservative movement has been hijacked and turned into a globalist, interventionist, open borders ideology, which is not the conservative movement I grew up with." Pat Buchanan

"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government"
Thomas Jefferson
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Old 07-05-2007, 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by basharp1 View Post
Rob, this is an article regarding social mobility in America or the lack there of. Its not just my opinion its a study that has been done and discussed in many other articles. People are there own worst enemy, that I agree. As it pertains to legal immigrants, the point I'm making is our system is broke. We need a moratorium on immigration until we can secure our borders. Study those laws that are currently in place and modify and implement new laws, if need, to ensure it is in the common interest of all Americans. You might look at the quote I posted by Teddy Roosevelt on his opinion of immigrants in America back in 1919, I believe its in the lobby section.
I happen to agree with your thread in the lobby. If we just fund the Border Patrol and other law enforcement agencies we could enforce the laws on the books and secure our borders.
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Old 07-06-2007, 08:36 AM
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As far as the credit report. Pay your bills and don’t live above your means. If you aren’t happy with what you can afford then get another job. I’ve felt the hit on credit reports before. I tried to get a home loan a few years ago. I was denied because I had never owed anyone any money. I went and rented a TV for the next year, credit climbed.

You know you seem to have a rather narrow view of immigration. Most Americans have no problem with legal immigrants.

Whoa… maybe in some other part of the nation. I am from Georgia. I went home on leave back in November and went to a local burger king. I had to order my meal in Spanish because the illegal working there couldn’t speak any English. I have a problem with that.

When it comes to social mobility, I don’t think it’s that bad in America. My dad was born into a very poor family and he was poor up until I was a teenager, maybe 17. Now my grandfather is upper middle class, my father is wealthy and I am getting there. All three of us changed social classes. From living in a single wide trailer, to a camper, to a house. It can be done, but it’s not easy. The only thing keeping people from progressing is that they don’t want to work for it. It’s to easy to be poor and take a hand out. Stop feeding out derelicts and our poor and they will progress. Its harder to slack off when you are hungry.

You are where you are by the decisions that you have made. Our credit system may suck, but it works.
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