America, the land of opportunity?

SydneySteel · #11 (**permalink**) 07-06-2007, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 21yroldmillionaire

As far as the credit report. Pay your bills and don’t live above your means. If you aren’t happy with what you can afford then get another job. I’ve felt the hit on credit reports before. I tried to get a home loan a few years ago. I was denied because I had never owed anyone any money. I went and rented a TV for the next year, credit climbed.

You know you seem to have a rather narrow view of immigration. Most Americans have no problem with legal immigrants.

Whoa… maybe in some other part of the nation. I am from Georgia. I went home on leave back in November and went to a local burger king. I had to order my meal in Spanish because the illegal working there couldn’t speak any English. I have a problem with that.

When it comes to social mobility, I don’t think it’s that bad in America. My dad was born into a very poor family and he was poor up until I was a teenager, maybe 17. Now my grandfather is upper middle class, my father is wealthy and I am getting there. All three of us changed social classes. From living in a single wide trailer, to a camper, to a house. It can be done, but it’s not easy. The only thing keeping people from progressing is that they don’t want to work for it. It’s to easy to be poor and take a hand out. Stop feeding out derelicts and our poor and they will progress. Its harder to slack off when you are hungry.

You are where you are by the decisions that you have made. Our credit system may suck, but it works.

I haven't had a problem with the credit system, but the fact that minorities have those vaporizing points is a problem. The fact that credit reports are used to deny qualified people better jobs is a problem and should be done away with. I also have a BIG problem denying food to children. It's harder to slack off when you are hungry, but it's harder to work when you're hungry too. I believe in the boot strap philosophy as well. BUT I do not believe in using a credit report in such sneaky and unfair ways. I know. I know. Life is not fair, but life shouldn't be manipulated by people with nefarious intentions either.

bluedog · #12 (**permalink**) 07-06-2007, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 21yroldmillionaire

As far as the credit report. Pay your bills and don’t live above your means. If you aren’t happy with what you can afford then get another job. I’ve felt the hit on credit reports before. I tried to get a home loan a few years ago. I was denied because I had never owed anyone any money. I went and rented a TV for the next year, credit climbed.

You know you seem to have a rather narrow view of immigration. Most Americans have no problem with legal immigrants.

Whoa… maybe in some other part of the nation. I am from Georgia. I went home on leave back in November and went to a local burger king. I had to order my meal in Spanish because the illegal working there couldn’t speak any English. I have a problem with that.

When it comes to social mobility, I don’t think it’s that bad in America. My dad was born into a very poor family and he was poor up until I was a teenager, maybe 17. Now my grandfather is upper middle class, my father is wealthy and I am getting there. All three of us changed social classes. From living in a single wide trailer, to a camper, to a house. It can be done, but it’s not easy. The only thing keeping people from progressing is that they don’t want to work for it. It’s to easy to be poor and take a hand out. Stop feeding out derelicts and our poor and they will progress. Its harder to slack off when you are hungry.

You are where you are by the decisions that you have made. Our credit system may suck, but it works.

That would be my point...in fact I have stated such on numerous occasions...the only thing holding the majority of lower middle class and the poor back are in fact the various and sundry "social programs" that were put into place to have the appearance of helping....they were deemed "THE GREAT SOCIETY PROGRAMS"....In fact the only thing they seemed to have accomplished is to "hold" a certain demography of peoples at bay and thus locking them into the lower rung of one of the "social classifications created by Labeling and Defining this certain demography of the population "POOR" or the "WORKING POOR".....they are locked into a certain lifestyle by the benefits provided by the government...as the qualifications of such programs are narrow and limited....these peoples must ensure they remain within these stated guidelines for qualifications to ensure continued support of future benefits....these benefits are like holding a pork chop out in front of a starving person and at the last second pulling it back and giving him a piece of bologna....substance but not quality....and the starving person makes the perception that bologna is better than starving...especially sense he does not have to work for the bologna....in fact if he did refuse the government handout of bologna....and sought support in the private sector....at the "entry level" due to his/her qualifications...they would have to give up "perks" of remaining on the human services rolls......health care at 100% coverage...day care....housing...utilities paid for...phone services offered to certain pre qualified people.....these perks can not be matched by private industry...in fact taking an entry level position would probably be a step down on the social rung....and this is why there is a feeling of hopelessness...these funds and helps are handed out...free......with no requests from the government for recompense at all.....so the majority of those receiving this support have found "loopholes" in the system to take advantage of the system....such as the health care provided....they use this system to supplement their income...as there is no copay....they seek less than honest medical treatments and thus go into the drug dealing industry...a crime. Some resort to professional thieving for supplement....a crime..all due to the time on hand and the lack of education and the will to change....and who do all these people vote for....why of course...the people they perceive as holding the purse strings to their way of life. BD

21yroldmillionaire · #13 (**permalink**) 07-09-2007, 08:40 AM

damn bluedog. If I ever meet you in person I'll buy you a beer.

I agree with you. Ive seen welfare familys pass around thier children to get a bigger hand out. And Ive seen women stay pregnant for the same reason.

it may be free to them, but the rest of us are picking up that slack. I saw a bumper sticker once that summed it up great. It said " work harder, thousands on welfare depend on you."

I could bitch about this all day.

bluedog · #14 (**permalink**) 07-09-2007, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by basharp1

Work hard an you'll get ahead.
Honesty is best policy.
A fair days pay for a fair days work.

Go to college and the skies the limit. Yeah right! Fair, honest, hard working, educated, just and considerate towards everyone. Color blind, judge based on character, merits and intelligence. A piece of paper, and a lot of student loan debt. The "American Dream" is paraded around, just as the proliferation of on-line degrees, "purchased degrees". Preying on the hopes and dreams of people (market). Those that have have. Those that have not, get out of denial. Hidden barriers, not on paper, but they're there. The establishment has and will do anything and everything possible to ensure you don't have an equal opportunity to achieve it. It's not what you know, but whom your affiliated with. It's hard if not possible to move out of the social economic class you are born in. My philosophy professor told me this a long time ago. Didn't believe him then, now older and wiser, its the truth. We're at the end of a cycle. All markets are mature, no more land to find and a population that is out of control, the j shaped curve and were close to the end of it. Moreover, I got my degree the traditional way. Link is as follows:

http://www.commondreams.org/views02/0428-01.htm

You want to see a " j " curve?......Go down to Cuba......Russia.....or even to South American...and you can see first hand the results of "J" in capital format.....as always communism starts out to rid "society" of its classes and make equal "ALL"....in the end ALL that is equal turns out to be corrupt.....at least in a society set to run on the capitalistic wheels of fortune....a person is "born" with the "hope" of greatness....and is allowed to "die" with that hope passed on to his offspring. We as a society may not be perfect...but I dare any to find a better overall society on the face of this globe. For even "HOPELESSNESS" is best practiced under one's own terms of freedom. BD

basharp1 · #15 (**permalink**) 07-09-2007, 05:18 PM

Fellow Forum members the J shape curve I'm referring too is as follows:

The inability of ones environment to sustain life do to exponential growth of the population. It's a social phenomenon that has exhisted since the beginning of time.

Examples, Rabbits are introduced in Australia. Their are no predators to maintain the rabbit population. Hence they put a fence up in the middle of the country. Didn't work, thus they introduced either Coyotes or Foxes to minimize the rabbit population.

In closing, population left unchecked will eventually wipe out all resources, starvation, anarchy, and death.

One could argue that capitalism in its truest form is like cancer. If left uncheck it will consume all. Thus the need for balance and checks, hence Keynesian economics, the fed and so on... The whole post was based on SOCIAL MOBILITY, ECONOMIC MOBILITY, and the ability to move from one social economic class to the other. I merely mentioned the J shape curve to illustrate all things go in cycles. Heck, if it wasn't for WW1 & 2 we probably be there already.

36shadow · #16 (**permalink**) 07-09-2007, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gdfather02

Tell this dribble to the hundreds of thousands of millions of legal immigrants that STILL make their way to our shores year after year.

One person has a back breaking experience, rolls over and gives up, so his experience must be a prerequisit for all things american. Whatever....

I'll tell you what, continue to sit on your ass, do nothing, and ensure that there remain MORE opportunities for the rest of us.

From the bottom of my heart, thanks for your support.

true hard work and persistance can reap great rewards but that does not always work the hurdles of corruption , racism , reverse racism , and just out and out bs. makes it almost imposable there are a lot of americans with degrees that are not employed or working at burger king that valadates this and to say they don't try hey they are go getters had to be just to get that degree. There is the fact that america has also allowed it easier to get small buisness loans , higher education price breaks yada yada yada for immagrants than if you are born an American and lived here your whole life. Or you can just be a criminal. You Know when I was in collage in california we had a guy in our class big buff dood we all got talking one day come to find out he was on a prison release program and getting it all free education , housing , money for food, shit I agree we should educate so they have the oportunity to be a viable part of society but were is my fucking break I just got out of the service with 13 personal awards 3 medals one the navy achievment and the best I could get is the GI bill that paid 300 dollars a month and 1200 dollar pale grant that was a one time deal what the fuck is up with that. I had to work and go through pre med. not fair to make this asumtion with a blanket statement blue

basharp1 · #17 (**permalink**) 07-09-2007, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluedog

You want to see a " j " curve?......Go down to Cuba......Russia.....or even to South American...and you can see first hand the results of "J" in capital format.....as always communism starts out to rid "society" of its classes and make equal "ALL"....in the end ALL that is equal turns out to be corrupt.....at least in a society set to run on the capitalistic wheels of fortune....a person is "born" with the "hope" of greatness....and is allowed to "die" with that hope passed on to his offspring. We as a society may not be perfect...but I dare any to find a better overall society on the face of this globe. For even "HOPELESSNESS" is best practiced under one's own terms of freedom. BD

Don't care about Cuba, Russia, or South America, my forebearers nor did I contribute or build their societies! The J shape curve I'm alluding too has nothing to do with communism. As far as a "better overall society on the face of this globe", I have to refrain from judgement. I will say this however, countries like Sweden (socialist) has virtually 0 population growth, very little if any crime and a medical system that helps all, not to mention a far better justice system. For your viewing pleasure:

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/2880.htm

21yroldmillionaire · #18 (**permalink**) 07-10-2007, 04:33 AM

Quote:

Fellow Forum members the J shape curve I'm referring too is as follows:

The inability of ones environment to sustain life do to exponential growth of the population. It's a social phenomenon that has exhisted since the beginning of time.

Examples, Rabbits are introduced in Australia. Their are no predators to maintain the rabbit population. Hence they put a fence up in the middle of the country. Didn't work, thus they introduced either Coyotes or Foxes to minimize the rabbit population.

In closing, population left unchecked will eventually wipe out all resources, starvation, anarchy, and death.

One could argue that capitalism in its truest form is like cancer. If left uncheck it will consume all. Thus the need for balance and checks, hence Keynesian economics, the fed and so on... The whole post was based on SOCIAL MOBILITY, ECONOMIC MOBILITY, and the ability to move from one social economic class to the other. I merely mentioned the J shape curve to illustrate all things go in cycles. Heck, if it wasn't for WW1 & 2 we probably be there already.

Hey lets use this as a new way to support the troops.

Advocate war! Its good to kill each other off!

I do understand were you are coming from. But do you really think that changeing the government is going to stop people from screwing and having kids?

basharp1 · #19 (**permalink**) 07-10-2007, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 21yroldmillionaire

Hey lets use this as a new way to support the troops.

Advocate war! Its good to kill each other off!

I do understand were you are coming from. But do you really think that changeing the government is going to stop people from screwing and having kids?

I don't believe that changing the government will stop them from pro-creating but blowing them up will. It's either we or them. Rule or be ruled. Oppress or be the oppressor. Thats life, right wrong better or worse

bluedog · #20 (**permalink**) 07-10-2007, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by basharp1

Don't care about Cuba, Russia, or South America, my forebearers nor did I contribute or build their societies! The J shape curve I'm alluding too has nothing to do with communism. As far as a "better overall society on the face of this globe", I have to refrain from judgement. I will say this however, countries like Sweden (socialist) has virtually 0 population growth, very little if any crime and a medical system that helps all, not to mention a far better justice system. For your viewing pleasure:

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/2880.htm

And just what protects this society....is it their superior military....no it is the placing of their very existence into the hands of their surrounding neighbors....one day...a jester that might come back to bite them on the proverbial ass.....they have all that you mentioned due to their placements of priorities...secular and often times at the expense of the innocent...and as said...they depend upon the goodness of others not to breech their neutral status...as they sure as heck can not protect themselves after wasting all their funds on social needs and the pleasures of this life....they have a far inferior military.....thus that is why they are in fact neutral....always making appeasements to the likes of Hitler and the rest of the worlds despots.....you could in fact choose to live there...if you can stand the hypocrisy that abounds. BD