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06-27-2007, 09:48 PM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: NY
Posts: 5,776
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dom1
Rasta, a few things. One being that you don't understand school vouchers at all. Remember the principal from New Jersey (Lean on Me was the movie I think) who was the black principal who changed the school with his discipline and emphasis on academics? He has stood up and said that it is crazy for people who care about minorities and poor people not to want school vouchers. What vouchers do is allow a minority student who lives in a shitty school district to go to a school which does actually teach kids. It allows that student to go to a school where thugs aren't in every classroom. The vouchers help the poor and minority students and some people have been duped into thinking they are bad by various liberal groups (those lobbiest you hate so much) because of THEIR agenda, not the kids well being.
As to the New Deal, it was an extension of Hoover's policies (remember Hoover Dam), and it was Hoover who foolishly convinced businesses into keeping wages high during the depression (at least while he was in office), so much so that those who did have jobs made more in real wages than those who didn't. The problem being there were way too many who were unemployed. The New Deal did not bring us out of the depression, the war did.
As far as yoru various points, in the first on what are you actually talking about? Private contractors are needed to build weaponry with the latest technology. Individual citizens can't do that - they don't have the ability. The electoral system being owned by us is confusing - nobody owns it. Prisons being 'owned' by the public? Why?
American education began to suffer when the federal government started to take a more active role in education. You want to give them more control, I want to give them less.
3 - fine with me, tell me how it gets paid for without my taxes going through the roof.
4 - why not let people have the option? Many in the middle class would take the money now and put them in their own IRA accounts.
5 - 70% tax on the wealthiest 5%! There is not reason to take 70% of what people earn. Remember, the wealthiest of Americans are people like the Ted Kennedys who don't pay very much in taxes because they don't earn anything. They don't have jobs! Why fuck the people who actually are contributing to the economy by employing people?
6 - The unions have a right to mobilize now. If you want to be fair, lets allow all states to be right to work states so that people are not FORCED to join the union to get a job. How is it anything resembling a democracy (1st Amendment freedom of association) to force people to join an organization and pay dues before they are allowed to work? The unions should also be able to recognize that when the industry they are working in is failing that their wages will suffer. They can't seem to understand this.
7 - It is a national security issue to me, I agree that we should look for alternative energy sources. But I think people are being naive if they actually think the prices will go down. The prices will stay basically the same for fuel for a vehicle because, simply put, they know they can get it, so this does very little for the middle class.
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dom as usual wonderfull post
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06-27-2007, 09:50 PM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: NY
Posts: 5,776
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seeker
look....asking passive income to be taxed at the same rates as earned income might be fair....doing away with the concept of long-term when it comes to capital gains might be fair.....
so lets at least give the poor shmo's who only earn 50K a break. For God's sake, full coverage family health insurance premiums are $12K per year.
also...why don't you go back and answer your other thread _____.
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how about you worry what you make and i will worry what i make...... and lets hope that the tax apartide will be fixed one day
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07-04-2007, 04:22 AM
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Political Mastermind
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,779
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IN CONGRESS, July 4, 1776.
The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America,
When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.
-- He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.
-- He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.
-- He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.
-- He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.
-- He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.
-- He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected; whereby the Legislative powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.
-- He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.
-- He has obstructed the Administration of Justice, by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary powers.
-- He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone, for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.
-- He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harrass our people, and eat out their substance.
-- He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.
-- He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil power.
-- He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:
-- For Quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:
-- For protecting them, by a mock Trial, from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:
-- For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:
-- For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:
-- For depriving us in many cases, of the benefits of Trial by Jury:
-- For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences
-- For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies:
-- For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws, and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:
-- For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.
-- He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.
-- He has plundered our seas, ravaged our Coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.
-- He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.
-- He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.
-- He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages, whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.
In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.
Nor have We been wanting in attentions to our Brittish brethren. We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement here. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these usurpations, which, would inevitably interrupt our connections and correspondence. They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends.
We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these United Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States; that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.
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The 56 signatures on the Declaration appear in the positions indicated:
Column 1
Georgia:
Button Gwinnett
Lyman Hall
George Walton
Column 2
North Carolina:
William Hooper
Joseph Hewes
John Penn
South Carolina:
Edward Rutledge
Thomas Heyward, Jr.
Thomas Lynch, Jr.
Arthur Middleton
Column 3
Massachusetts:
John Hancock
Maryland:
Samuel Chase
William Paca
Thomas Stone
Charles Carroll of Carrollton
Virginia:
George Wythe
Richard Henry Lee
Thomas Jefferson
Benjamin Harrison
Thomas Nelson, Jr.
Francis Lightfoot Lee
Carter Braxton
Column 4
Pennsylvania:
Robert Morris
Benjamin Rush
Benjamin Franklin
John Morton
George Clymer
James Smith
George Taylor
James Wilson
George Ross
Delaware:
Caesar Rodney
George Read
Thomas McKean
Column 5
New York:
William Floyd
Philip Livingston
Francis Lewis
Lewis Morris
New Jersey:
Richard Stockton
John Witherspoon
Francis Hopkinson
John Hart
Abraham Clark
Column 6
New Hampshire:
Josiah Bartlett
William Whipple
Massachusetts:
Samuel Adams
John Adams
Robert Treat Paine
Elbridge Gerry
Rhode Island:
Stephen Hopkins
William Ellery
Connecticut:
Roger Sherman
Samuel Huntington
William Williams
Oliver Wolcott
New Hampshire:
Matthew Thornton
__________________
"The world is a fine place and worth fighting for" Ernest Hemingway
"The world will know that free men stood against a tyrant, that few stood against many" Spartan King Leonidas
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07-04-2007, 11:21 AM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 10,405
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyinthemiddle
IN CONGRESS, July 4, 1776.
The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America,
When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.
-- He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.
-- He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.
-- He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.
-- He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.
-- He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.
-- He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected; whereby the Legislative powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.
-- He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.
-- He has obstructed the Administration of Justice, by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary powers.
-- He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone, for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.
-- He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harrass our people, and eat out their substance.
-- He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.
-- He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil power.
-- He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:
-- For Quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:
-- For protecting them, by a mock Trial, from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:
-- For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:
-- For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:
-- For depriving us in many cases, of the benefits of Trial by Jury:
-- For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences
-- For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies:
-- For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws, and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:
-- For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.
-- He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.
-- He has plundered our seas, ravaged our Coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.
-- He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.
-- He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.
-- He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages, whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.
In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.
Nor have We been wanting in attentions to our Brittish brethren. We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement here. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these usurpations, which, would inevitably interrupt our connections and correspondence. They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends.
We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these United Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States; that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The 56 signatures on the Declaration appear in the positions indicated:
Column 1
Georgia:
Button Gwinnett
Lyman Hall
George Walton
Column 2
North Carolina:
William Hooper
Joseph Hewes
John Penn
South Carolina:
Edward Rutledge
Thomas Heyward, Jr.
Thomas Lynch, Jr.
Arthur Middleton
Column 3
Massachusetts:
John Hancock
Maryland:
Samuel Chase
William Paca
Thomas Stone
Charles Carroll of Carrollton
Virginia:
George Wythe
Richard Henry Lee
Thomas Jefferson
Benjamin Harrison
Thomas Nelson, Jr.
Francis Lightfoot Lee
Carter Braxton
Column 4
Pennsylvania:
Robert Morris
Benjamin Rush
Benjamin Franklin
John Morton
George Clymer
James Smith
George Taylor
James Wilson
George Ross
Delaware:
Caesar Rodney
George Read
Thomas McKean
Column 5
New York:
William Floyd
Philip Livingston
Francis Lewis
Lewis Morris
New Jersey:
Richard Stockton
John Witherspoon
Francis Hopkinson
John Hart
Abraham Clark
Column 6
New Hampshire:
Josiah Bartlett
William Whipple
Massachusetts:
Samuel Adams
John Adams
Robert Treat Paine
Elbridge Gerry
Rhode Island:
Stephen Hopkins
William Ellery
Connecticut:
Roger Sherman
Samuel Huntington
William Williams
Oliver Wolcott
New Hampshire:
Matthew Thornton
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AND WHATS YOUR POINT?
__________________
AMERICA LAND OF THE FREE HOME OF THE BRAVE--BECAUSE OF OUR CONSTITUTION.
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07-04-2007, 12:06 PM
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Political Mastermind
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,364
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Since the only point you know is the top of your head..
go and crap in your own food, Ratboy.
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07-04-2007, 03:57 PM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: SW Oklahoma
Posts: 15,966
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I have to agree with Rasta on this. MIM has posted the Declaration Of Independce in at least 3 other places and while it is a very important document, do we really need it posted some many times? If a person is going to read it and understand it that is great. We have too many posters that see both the Declaration and also the Constitution as mere paper and they are getting in the way of their agenda's.
__________________
An informed voter scares the Goverment lackeys.
An American first and always a Conservative.
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07-04-2007, 05:19 PM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 13,248
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rob
I have to agree with Rasta on this. MIM has posted the Declaration Of Independce in at least 3 other places and while it is a very important document, do we really need it posted some many times?
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So what? Rasta posts the same things on three seperate threads at a time. He is maybe the last person that should be commenting on someone posting something multiple times.
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