http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_deal


Well i dont know if everyone is aware of the profound effects the new deal had on this country. Set up by fdr with probable good entesions. Like the FDIC,SEC. It also installed the first programs that where clearly socialism into our government.

And lets not forget it led to LBJ Great Society............... which we through away billions of dollars for nothing............. The war on poverty and race where set up and clearly after 45 years they have done nothing but drain the taxpayers money's

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Society


Claims the New Deal adopted fascist models

"Fascism" in the 21st century has very strong connotations of mass murder and death camps, making it a highly loaded term. However, in the 1930s it was meant big business' control of the government. Both Communists and Herbert Hoover used the term fascism in that manner.

Ronald Reagan, a strong supporter of the New Deal at the time reversed positions and claimed in 1976, "Fascism was really the basis for the New Deal." Journalist John T. Flynn, a former socialist, in his 1944 book As We Go Marching, said that "the New Dealers...began to flirt with the alluring pastime of reconstructing the capitalist system...and in the process of this new career they began to fashion doctrines that turned out to be the principles of fascism." See a further discussion of these claims linking the New Deal to statism, corporatism, and fascism at Fascism and ideology.

Former President Herbert Hoover argued that some (but not all) New Deal programs were "fascist," carrying a combination of rule by big business corporations and presidential dictatorship. [Memoirs 3:420]

"Among the early Roosevelt fascist measures was the National Industry Recovery Act (NRA) of June 16, 1933 .... These ideas were first suggested by Gerald Swope (of the General Electric Company)....[and] the United States Chamber of Commerce. During the campaign of 1932, Henry I. Harriman, president of that body, urged that I agree to support these proposals, informing me that Mr. Roosevelt had agreed to do so. I tried to show him that this stuff was pure fascism; that it was a remaking of Mussolini's "corporate state" and refused to agree to any of it. He informed me that in view of my attitude, the business world would support Roosevelt with money and influence. That for the most part proved true."

Whatever Hoover was told, Roosevelt had not agreed to any such plan. In 1934, Roosevelt himself warned his "fireside chat" radio audiences against linguistic confusion. Some people, he said:

will try to give you new and strange names for what we are doing. Sometimes they will call it 'Fascism,' sometimes 'Communism,' sometimes 'Regimentation,' sometimes 'Socialism.' But, in so doing, they are trying to make very complex and theoretical something that is really very simple and very practical. . . . Plausible self-seekers and theoretical die-hards will tell you of the loss of individual liberty. Answer this question out of the facts of your own life. Have you lost any of your rights or liberty or constitutional freedom of action and choice?[26]

In September 1934 Roosevelt defended a more powerful national government as he believed was necessary to control the economy, by quoting conservative Republican Elihu Root:

The tremendous power of organization [Root had said] has combined great aggregations of capital in enormous industrial establishments . . . so great in the mass that each individual concerned in them is quite helpless by himself. . . . The old reliance upon the free action of individual wills appears quite inadequate. . . . The intervention of that organized control we call government seems necessary. . . . Men may differ as to the particular form of governmental activity with respect to industry or business, but nearly all are agreed that private enterprise in times such as these cannot be left without assistance and without reasonable safeguards lest it destroy not only itself but also our process of civilization.[27]

Other scholars reject linking the New Deal to Fascism as overly simplistic. As a leading historian of fascism explains, "What Fascist corporatism and the New Deal had in common was a certain amount of state intervention in the economy. Beyond that, the only figure who seemed to look on Fascist corporatism as a kind of model was Hugh Johnson, head of the National Recovery Administration."[28] Johnson strenuously denied any association with Mussolini, saying the NRA "is being organized almost as you would organize a business. I want to avoid any Mussolini appearance -- the President calls this Act industrial self-government."[29] Donald Richberg eventually replaced General Hugh Johnson as head of NRA and speaking before a Senate committee said "A nationally planned economy is the only salvation of our present situation and the only hope for the future."[30] Historians such as Hawley (1966) have examined the origins of the NRA in detail, showing the main inspiration came from Senators Hugo Black and Robert Wagner and from American business leaders such as the Chamber of Commerce. The main model was Woodrow Wilson's War Industries Board, in which Johnson had been involved. No historian reports that any New Deal agency was copied from Italy, Germany or any other country.

If you think bandying the term fascist around is OK, well, there's a good case to be made that a large swath of the modern conservative movement is proto-fascistic in nature, which would explain the extremism of many far right apologists, on this forum and elsewhere. Most of these extremists don't even realize how far right they've drifted --that's why they demonize mainstream Democrats and claim they are Evil Leftists ; a quite ludicrous assertion in my opinion : most mainstream Democrats are consensual centrists-types, moderate-to-slightly-liberal. Nonetheless you seem to think that they are the quintessential Big Bad Socialists Who Are Going To Tax Us Into Oblivion. I'd love to see your reaction to meeting an actual leftist, a firebrand Marxist for example ; you'd probably clutch your pearls and screech about the return of the Bolsheviks, "oh my god, Joe McCarthy, come back and save us!"
Ever heard of the word nuance, or of the expression shades of gray ? Look 'em up, they might help.

WHY HELLO THERE Cizungu:-)

WANT TO PLAY

Some here seem to "LOOK" up to you.......so i'm lookin too......shades of GRAY is compromise:-(



Lookagain posts


You are a fancy talkin name-caller's all I'm seeing

Change my mind:-)

Y HALO THAR LOOKAGAIN

Could you point out the name-calling ?

As for "fancy talk", I take it as a compliment.

Capitalism is the only economic system that offers the most individual freedom. One can always find fault with any system but the fact remains only capitalism allows each of us the freedom to choose our destiny. Any other economic system is only varying degrees of slavery to some unnamed "group". Any other system is conducted by slaves at the point of a gun rather than as free men engaging in free trade

Why would someone want to play with you of all people!!!!

__________________
AMERICA LAND OF THE FREE HOME OF THE BRAVE--BECAUSE OF OUR CONSTITUTION.

lookagain is a cryptic poster but he is interesting

Capitalism is the best model, however, Predatory Capitalism only benefitts a few at the top.

Predatory Capitalism When Corporations Go Unregulated

PredatoryCapitalism.net

Rev. Bill McGinnis, Director

Unregulated profit-seeking corporations cannot be trusted to protect the Public, because their main objective is to make profits, not to be a do-gooder for the Public. Whenever profit-making conflicts with the Public interest, profit-making wins!

This is not a radical idea, but an obvious fact, if you think about it. Profit-seeking corporations exist to make a profit, and the more profit, the better. Anything which increases profits is good for them; and anything which decreases profits is bad. So they try to do whatever is necessary to make profits. This is the essence of Laissez-faire Capitalism: that profit-seeking corporations should be left alone to do whatever they choose to do in order to make profits.

Employees get paid to help the company make a profit, not to be a do-gooder for the general Public. Just suppose a local manager decided to give away $1,000,000 of the company's money to build a playground for the neighborhood children. "The kids need the playground!," he says. Unless this playgound were part of some co-ordinated Public Relations effort, intended ultimately to produce greater profit, the employee would probably be fired, and replaced by someone with a better profit-making attitude.

Suppose an auto manufacturer had some kind of a safety problem, perhaps gas tanks that sometimes exploded on impact. And suppose it would cost a hundred million dollars to fix the problem, but it would only cost ten million to let the problem continue, and pay off the victims who sued and won. What do you suppose the company would do? It would let the problem continue, of course! Deny that a problem exists, claim it was the user's fault, and pay off damages only when forced to do so. These kinds of decisions happen all the time. Why do you suppose the corporations are so eager to get "Tort Reform?" To limit their payoffs for damages, of course! So their profits aren't hurt so much! "To hell with the Public," they think. "They should be more careful!"

And if the Management of a profit-seeking corporation ever did choose the Public interest over a higher profit (unless it were forced to do so by some kind of government regulation), then that corporation would be violating its financial duty to its stockholders. And the stockholders would be entitled to replace the do-gooder Management with a profit-oriented Management.

So what should we do? We need profit-seeking corporations because they are very efficient and very innovative. They are quick to provide products and services to fill needs, if the profit is there. They can do great things very quickly. But they cannot be trusted to protect the Public, if it hurts their profits to do so. And it is unreasonable to expect that they should - unless they are somehow compelled to do it. But we cannot allow them simply to run loose, like rampaging elephants, trampling down whatever is in their path.

The answer is GOVERNMENT REGULATION! Yes, Government Regulation of profit-seeking corporations. Reasonable regulations, applied fairly, so that all the companies are in the same boat and nobody gets any special advantage. This is not difficult to do, but it does require some effort. And it requires going against the current right-wing Republican policies of Laissez-faire Capitalism: that profit-seeking corporations should be left alone to do whatever they choose to do in order to make profits.

UNREGULATED PROFIT-SEEKING CORPORATIONS HARM THE PUBLIC THESE FIVE WAYS

Unregulated profit-seeking corporations harm the public these five ways. We are talking mainly about the larger, publicly-traded, profit-seeking corporations like those whose stocks are traded on the stock exchanges. But the same ideas can apply to any unregulated profit-seeking corporation, even the smaller ones and the private ones.

We recognize that profit-seeking corporations can be a great force for good in the world, creating and providing wonderful goods and services that would be unavailable by any other means. But we also recognize that if they are unregulated, they harm the public these five ways. An unregulated corporation is like a loose elephant in your neighborhood. Who can stop it from trampling over whatever it chooses?

1. NOT PAY TAXES -In order to maximize profits, they always seek to avoid or minimize their taxes.

2. ELIMINATE COMPETION -In order to maximize profits, they always seek to eliminate or control their competition.

3. CUT WAGES AND SALARIES - In order to maximize profits, they always seek to reduce their labor costs.

4. DISREGARD THE ENVIRONMENT - In order to maximize profits, they always seek to avoid all environmental restraints.

5. SELL DANGEROUS, HARMFUL PRODUCTS - In order to maximize profits, they are tempted to sell dangerous or harmful products.

http://www.loveallpeople.org/predatorycapitalism.html

__________________
AMERICA LAND OF THE FREE HOME OF THE BRAVE--BECAUSE OF OUR CONSTITUTION.