Originally Posted by nathanbforrest45

You want to know what I can't stand? I can't stand being demonized at every turn by the radical left like IHNR and his ilk. I can't stand that "thinking for oneself" in liberal terms is thinking as they tell us to think because after all they know the one true answer and anyone who disagrees is obviously a yahoo.

But here's the rub, in this case, Iraq, and maybe only this case the Liberals were right and the Conservatives were wrong.

Give Cindy Shehan a break. Not on your life. I believe she is totally mentally unstable and is perhaps the main reason her son joined the military in the first place, to get away from her stupidity. Her husband left her for the same reason. I don't believe she harbors anything for this country other than hatred. I believe she is being willingly used by Americas enemies.

Wow. You not only slam a bereving mother, you slam her slain son by saying he only joined the military to get away from her.

Your statements speak for themselves, nat.

I am sorry Deadshot, I don't believe leftist love America, I believe given the opportunity they would all remake it in the vision of Stalin or Castro.

Stalin who brutally murdered millions of his people then threw millions away we fighting tanks with men with rifles.

Castro who's watched an island paradise turn into a third world country in 40 years time.

You don't know "leftist America."

Either they are completely stupid about the fact that liberalism (modern liberalism, which is actually socialism) does not work, never has, never will or they do understand that their policies is nothing more than a way to control those they believe are less intelligent than they are (which is everyone who is not a liberal) and are the personification of evil.

What fascinates me about your comments is that is exactly what the far left says about the right.

1. Capitalism is failing, people are left to suffer and the rich get richer as the poor get poorer.
2. Conservatives are not smart
3. Conservatives are evil.

It's those sweeping statements that seperate us. Socialism is not the answer, but niether is total Capitalism. We have socialist things in our society now - Social Security, Medicaid, Medicare, Disability and Welfare. Capitalism can be made a little "nicer" we've proven it.

Both sides have smart people, if they didn't one side would dominate the other.

Neither side is evil, but both sides have evil in them.

That's the difference between you and I, Nat. You refuse to see any good in my side, I do see the good in your side, I just want you to change and become more balanced. I'm conservative on crime, but liberal on prostitution and drugs. I'm conservative on defense, but liberal on diplomacy. Liberal on social issues, but conservative on private issues. I want a balance, probably leaning left. You want it all.

To me capitalism is the only economic system that allows complete freedom. And while we have never been a completely capitalistic country the closer we were to it the more the country prospered and grew.

Read this article, Lou Dobbs, 17 Jan 07 We've got 48 million without Health Insurance, 8 million of them children. Is capitalism the best system, yeah the best we know of. But we can do better for those 8 million kids and 40 million without health coverage.


As far as Bush making mistakes in the Iraq war, yes he has, its has taken him a long time to admit it and for that I am truly sorry. But so did Lincoln in the early stages of the War between the States. Would you have clamoured for Lincoln to have stopped trying to restore the Union because of those early loses? I believe Bush's mistakes were not giving us the shock and awe he promised, for trying to fight a politically correct war. If we are going to be the victors we must fight like we mean it.

Originally Posted by Sam

George I think you are the only who posted who knows what it is. Cat knows and has spoke of it. It has had the most impact on why the militias have taken such a stronghold. I wonder if it is possible to reverse its effects completely.

Originally Posted by Deadshot

Originally Posted by Sam

Deadshot I think i have arrived where you are. I know this invasion was on poorly chosen intel and possibly intentionally misleading intel but I think we need to stay. I think our mishandling and possibly intentional misleading of the US into invading Iraq is clear. Discussing what and how it went wrong will keep the lines from being blurred. I agree that now with all this we cannot leave but is 20,000+ troops enough to repair the damage?

Originally Posted by nathanbforrest45

Let me start by saying I am not mad, I merely do not like Sam.

No, I am not as articulate as Sam or Bark or several others on this board. I only know that I believe in capitalism, God, my family and in the overall goodness in the concept of the United States of America.

And God knows I would rather live in Conservative Tennesse with all its problems than in left wing Oregon any day of the week.

Originally Posted by Dom1

I don't think the 20K troops will accomplish much in the big scheme of things either. I am sure they will help in some areas but not enough to make a difference.

I was against it at first, but am going back to look at the idea of partioning Iraq. I was initially against the idea because I think that us having a hand in allowing the Kurds independence (and I think it would be good for them, but not necessarily Iraq). If the Kurds gain an independent state it presents problems with the Kurds in Turkey and the Kurds in Iran. They would be left on an island so to speak because I don't see anyone helping them. Plus, who gets control of the prime oil fields? That would be a fight in and of itself. I still think it might be a foolhardy idea, but am going to give it another look.

Ideally a strong leader who is willing to work to unite at least some of the Sunni and Shia needs to come to the forefront. Thing is, something like that can't be forced.

Originally Posted by Sam

I can hardly believe I am wasting time responding to you but Natthan I do not care if you dislike me. I do find it odd you follow my posts such as this one without really discussing the post at all. I find it odd you start threads on Oregon and then complain if I respond with an answer. I really do not dislike you at all I just find your constant following of my posts with silly comments strange. Jump in if you disagree and tell why you like Bremer.

If I do not care for someone on the forum I sure would not follow their posts and waste my time with 4 posts wisecracking. If they started a thread that interested me I might decide to post but that was clearly not the case.

Anyway Natthan despite you following my posts with silly wisecracks i really do not mind nor do I dislike you. I just find it all odd.Like you I value my country,my family, God, responsible capitalism so I am not sure what your point is.


Okay now back to Bremer. Does anyone here think he was the "fall guy" or did he lay the foundation for the situation we have today?

Originally Posted by rob

The adminstration has made mistakes, but continuing to knock the mistakes without offering a solution is just plain stupid.

Originally Posted by nathanbforrest45

Rob, all you need to say is she is a liberal, all the rest of your qualifiers is taken for granted