Argue With Everyone Political Forums  

Go Back   Argue With Everyone Political Forums > General Political Debate > Economics and the Economy

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21 (permalink)  
Old 01-09-2007, 12:55 AM
crowonapost's Avatar
Machiavelli Incarnate
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Chicago
Posts: 9,155
Default

Yes excellent post rasta

The US is an idea. It is an idea that is solid enough in it's manifestation to be comfortably challenged.

I posit this.

NO matter how many Mexicans cross the border & have questionable allegiance the momentum of the American way has permeated ALL the world & especially the North American countries. There is a power in this country that will not dissipate because individual people walk on & use its sovereignty It will continue to exist as a way of being because it is manifest. The power of America will not be destroyed by any external force. In mass or individual or political. We need to rise above the binary responses that were laid out by Rasta. They simply are a way to hold back the real kinetic potential of this POWERFUL concept of USA.

It's that simple.
Reply With Quote
  #22 (permalink)  
Old 01-09-2007, 01:04 AM
Roman's Avatar
Political Mastermind
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,142
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by I_Hate_the_Nazi_Right View Post
Friday, June 23, 2006

Death Of The Middle Class: GOP's Finger On the Trigger

More evidence that the wonderful "Bush boom" is booming only for those at the very top of America's income pyramid:



Chief executives of U.S. corporations earned 262 times the pay of the average worker in 2005, the second-highest level in the 40 years the data's been kept, an economic research group said this week.

Last year, the average CEO was paid $10.9 million a year, or 262 times an average worker's earnings of $41,861, the Economic Policy Institute said Wednesday.

The research group also found a CEO earned more in one workday in 2005 than an average worker earned in 52 weeks.

The group includes salary, bonuses, stock options and other payments in its definition of CEO pay.


While the CEOs are doing great, the average American? Um, not so much:


Let's compare that to regular guys salary increases in this expansion. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, average hourly pay for production workers was $14.79 in November 2001 (when this expansion began) and $16.62 in May 2006 for an increase of 12.37%. Over the same period the inflation gage increased from 177.4 to 202.5 for an increase of 14.14%. This means 80% of the population has seen their wages decrease 1.77% during this expansion.




At the same time, corporations are doing extremely well. According to the Federal Reserves Flow of Funds statement, corporate profits as a percentage of national income have increased from 8.5% in 2001 to 13.88% in the first quarter of 2006. Over the same period (2001 to the first quarter of 2006) corporations are the only economic sector to actually save any money. Their savings increased from $192.3 billion in 2001 to $606.3 billion in the first quarter of 2006. In other words, if corporations wanted to increase salaries beyond inflation, they clearly have the money to do so.



But of course, they aren't -- and America is suffering as a result:


But after 2000 something changed. The pace of productivity growth has been rising again, but now it seems to be lifting fewer boats. After you adjust for inflation, the wages of the typical American worker--the one at the very middle of the income distribution--have risen less than 1% since 2000. In the previous five years, they rose over 6%. If you take into account the value of employee benefits, such as health care, the contrast is a little less stark. But, whatever the measure, it seems clear that only the most skilled workers have seen their pay packets swell much in the current economic expansion. The fruits of productivity gains have been skewed towards the highest earners, and towards companies, whose profits have reached record levels as a share of GDP.


And yet the House Republicans just passed another bill designed to give the CEOs and companies even more money while further starving those government services that most benefit those of us who aren't CEOs or corporations.


http://phoenixwoman.blogspot.com/200...finger-on.html
This won't affect your logic at all but its still a point no one is talking about. Money makes money, bottom line. The rich get richer because they invest a large portion of their money rather than simply paying bills. If the middleclass did this, they would be much better off. How many middleclass families spend themselves into oblivion? Most of them do. What if that family with the $40k suv bought a $20k, and that $250k house instead bought a $150k house? They could have made much more money investing it, more so in the first example but none the less. The larger question is what do we do about it? Do we hold back the rich who are the driver of our economy by investing, thus, creating more jobs, etc.? This is why I support a national sales tax, it gives middle class families incentive to invest rather than spend and it makes the rich pay the bills for a lavish lifestyle.
Reply With Quote
  #23 (permalink)  
Old 01-09-2007, 01:19 AM
crowonapost's Avatar
Machiavelli Incarnate
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Chicago
Posts: 9,155
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roman View Post
This won't affect your logic at all but its still a point no one is talking about. Money makes money, bottom line. The rich get richer because they invest a large portion of their money rather than simply paying bills. If the middleclass did this, they would be much better off. How many middleclass families spend themselves into oblivion? Most of them do. What if that family with the $40k suv bought a $20k, and that $250k house instead bought a $150k house? They could have made much more money investing it, more so in the first example but none the less. The larger question is what do we do about it? Do we hold back the rich who are the driver of our economy by investing, thus, creating more jobs, etc.? This is why I support a national sales tax, it gives middle class families incentive to invest rather than spend and it makes the rich pay the bills for a lavish lifestyle.
Your premise is wrong.

Our modern capitalist economy in the US is built on spending & loans to build for a better future not on saving & investing. Japan tried it & suffered many many years they are only now half heartedly coming out of their mess. Why are they strong still with cars & technology? Well that's something one can only understand by being there. It is the Shinto spirit.
Reply With Quote
  #24 (permalink)  
Old 01-09-2007, 08:45 AM
Unregistered2
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by crowonapost View Post
Your premise is wrong.

Our modern capitalist economy in the US is built on spending & loans to build for a better future not on saving & investing. Japan tried it & suffered many many years they are only now half heartedly coming out of their mess. Why are they strong still with cars & technology? Well that's something one can only understand by being there. It is the Shinto spirit.
spending and loans are often times investment.
Reply With Quote
  #25 (permalink)  
Old 01-09-2007, 09:44 PM
Machiavelli Incarnate
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: NY
Posts: 5,776
Default

last time i checked the middle class is doing well. The only reason why the middle class is shrinking is because they are moving into the RICH BRACKET.
Reply With Quote
  #26 (permalink)  
Old 01-09-2007, 10:31 PM
monkeyinthemiddle's Avatar
Political Mastermind
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,779
Default

Name me one elitist democrat leftist that exemplifies the lifestyle and moral codes of a working class?
hillary clinton?
bubba?
mickeymoore?
HA!
__________________

"The world is a fine place and worth fighting for" Ernest Hemingway

"The world will know that free men stood against a tyrant, that few stood against many" Spartan King Leonidas
Reply With Quote
  #27 (permalink)  
Old 01-09-2007, 10:37 PM
Machiavelli Incarnate
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,873
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gixaholic View Post
last time i checked the middle class is doing well. The only reason why the middle class is shrinking is because they are moving into the RICH BRACKET.
If you check the facts you will see that is not the case.
__________________
I respect your right to have your own opinion,but I do not necessarily respect your opinion.
Reply With Quote
  #28 (permalink)  
Old 01-13-2007, 12:44 PM
RASTAMAN's Avatar
Machiavelli Incarnate
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 9,950
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ladyofmts View Post
Nazi; for every "poor me" story there is a success story.
Can you provide some examples in today's economy?
__________________
AMERICA LAND OF THE FREE HOME OF THE BRAVE--BECAUSE OF OUR CONSTITUTION.
Reply With Quote
  #29 (permalink)  
Old 01-13-2007, 12:46 PM
RASTAMAN's Avatar
Machiavelli Incarnate
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 9,950
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyinthemiddle View Post
Name me one elitist democrat leftist that exemplifies the lifestyle and moral codes of a working class?
hillary clinton?
bubba?
mickeymoore?
HA!
Give me an example of one Republican conservative extremist who exemplifiies the average lifestyle of the southern working class?
__________________
AMERICA LAND OF THE FREE HOME OF THE BRAVE--BECAUSE OF OUR CONSTITUTION.
Reply With Quote
  #30 (permalink)  
Old 01-13-2007, 01:24 PM
RASTAMAN's Avatar
Machiavelli Incarnate
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 9,950
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roman View Post
This won't affect your logic at all but its still a point no one is talking about. Money makes money, bottom line. The rich get richer because they invest a large portion of their money rather than simply paying bills. If the middleclass did this, they would be much better off. How many middleclass families spend themselves into oblivion? Most of them do. What if that family with the $40k suv bought a $20k, and that $250k house instead bought a $150k house? They could have made much more money investing it, more so in the first example but none the less. The larger question is what do we do about it? Do we hold back the rich who are the driver of our economy by investing, thus, creating more jobs, etc.? This is why I support a national sales tax, it gives middle class families incentive to invest rather than spend and it makes the rich pay the bills for a lavish lifestyle.
Roman, money makes money there's no doubt about that. However.....the wealthy have access to stock information and tax shelters that every day Americans do not have. Also, I don't believe the stock market is setup for everyone to retire wealthy. Perhaps you can further elaborate in this area. But history has proven that a small percentage of investors make over a million dollars in the stock market.

The latest push of making every American play the stock market versus pension programs for their retirement is a receipe for disaster. This scheme will benefit the stock broker class who will take money off the top for their commissions and financial advice....but is risky for the average investor who's retirement hinges on the roller coaster stock exhchange.

I am not a supporter of holding back the rich, however, the influence of the wealthy with their lobbiest inregards to Congress passing laws and legislation to favor Corporations over priviate citizens is where the problem lies when we discuss "Free Market's" and "Fair Share" of the Capitalistic Model in this country.

Republicans and their loyal supporters of the Reagan Revolution will stoop to any depth to prove that Trickle Down Voodo Economics is good for everyone, even at the expense of spouting mis-truths about the poor, well-fare, and the middle class.

Case in point your comments about how the middle class spend their earnings, rather than say the middle class work hard and don't believe in welfare and they pay their taxes........you will put the middle class down b/c of their spending habits (which of course is no ones business) so long as they honor their financial obligations.

When the middle class purchase a 40K car versus 20K car the car manufacturer are happy don't you think. Real Estate and the Home Builder associations would much rather see the Middle Class purchase a house for 250K versus 150K.......these are examples of what the Middle Class brings to the Capitalistic Model. The middle class in conjunction with Business makes allows capitalism to run at it's finest.

The middle class are not bums, wel-fare recipents, crimminals, nor social malingerers. The middle class allows the poor to dream about becoming middle class, the middle class dreams of one-day becoming wealthy, and the middle class allows the Fortune 500 to increase their wealth and bottom lilne.

A vibrant middle class is the very foundation of any stable and growing democracy.
__________________
AMERICA LAND OF THE FREE HOME OF THE BRAVE--BECAUSE OF OUR CONSTITUTION.

Last edited by RASTAMAN; 01-13-2007 at 01:36 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On
Forum Jump


» Navigation

Political Links Page

Blogs by AWE Members

Advertisers support this site - if you're interested in their product, take a look!


$5 monthly donation:

$10 monthly donation:



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:48 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.2.0
Poltical Topsites PolitiPoll.net - Political Web Rankings