Who owns the rivers

Sam · #31 (**permalink**) 12-30-2006, 08:43 PM

http://www.leg.state.or.us/ferrioli/home.htm

The incident occurred in 1998. This is the site of the lawmaker who tried to introduce the bill to restrict usage of rivers.He did not have the support of the majority of Oregonians who viewed it as an elitist bill. I remember your sister lives in Beaverton. John Day is in Eastern Oregon. It is beautiful but is still a bit like the wild west.

oceanbreeze · #32 (**permalink**) 12-30-2006, 10:25 PM

Yes, Thanks Sam.

Areyouforreal · #33 (**permalink**) 12-31-2006, 04:35 AM

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To this day, state constitutions affirm public ownership of all running waters.

They typically say that “every natural stream” or “all surface waters” are owned by the state, for use by the public. Various state courts have upheld public access to running waters, calling it an “easement,” and saying, for example, “The capability of use of the waters for recreational purposes determines their availability for recreational use by the public. Streambed ownership by a private party is irrelevant. If the waters are owned by the State and held in trust for the people by the State, no private party may bar the use of those waters by the people.” Public access to streams, and trails along streams, is further supported by the legal doctrines of custom and prescription. Willow River Club v. Wade, 100 Wis. 86, 76 N.W. 273 (1898). Taylor v. Commonwealth, 102 Va. 759, 47 S.E. 875, 102 Am.St.Rep. 865 (1904). Day v. Armstrong, 362 P.2d 187 (Wyo. 1961). People v. Mack, 97 Cal. Rptr. 448, 19 Cal. App. 3d 1040 (1971). Montana Coalition for Stream Access v. Curran, 210 Mont. 38 (1984).

What about navigable rivers?

While all running waters are held in trust for the public, rivers and streams that are navigable have additional legal status. Public navigation rights, like fishing rights, have been recognized since ancient times. After the American Revolution, the founding fathers moved quickly to ensure public rights to navigate on all navigable rivers and streams. In discussing rivers and their tributaries, the very first law passed by the United States Congress said these “navigable waters,” as well as “the carrying places between the same, shall be common highways, and forever free” to the public, “without any tax, impost, or duty therefor.” An additional federal law in 1796 confirmed public rights to “all navigable waters.” Note the reference to portable watercraft such as canoes, and the right to carry them from one stretch of river to another. River navigation at the time was in canoes and small boats, using oars and paddles. Canoes and kayaks are thousands of years old. (“Canoe” was an Indian word, and the Eskimo word “kayak” is related to the ancient Greek word for a small boat.) From 1804 to 1806 the Lewis and Clark expedition, sponsored by Congress and President Thomas Jefferson, canoed from St. Louis to the Pacific Ocean and back, carrying their canoes where necessary. (Steamboats were not developed until later in the 1800s.) Also note that government agencies cannot charge fees for river access, and that public rights to rivers are “forever,” not just until landowners try to block them. In 1954, courts held that a canoeist was not trespassing when he pulled his canoe over a landowner’s fence across a stream (pushing down the fence in the process,) continued canoeing on the stream through private land, pulled the canoe up on the bank to get around a log jam, then waded on the streambed to fish, before getting back in the canoe and continuing downstream, leaving the private land. Courts have recognized “a public right of access for fishing and navigation to the point of the high water mark,” adding that the public can “cross private property in order to portage around barriers in the water,” but holding that “the right to portage must be accomplished in the least intrusive manner possible.” In addition, federal courts have held that “all navigable rivers” are subject to the federal navigation servitude, and are therefore open to navigation by the public, regardless of state or private ownership of the beds and banks. For example, the Jackson River in Virginia is navigable because, as the court ruled, “canoes can navigate the upper river without trouble except during the late summer, and canoeing experts consider the Jackson to be a very fine canoeing stream, except for troubles with landowners along the river.” Northwest Ordinance of 1787, 1 Stat. 50. Act of May 18, 1796, 1 Stat. 464. The Journals of Lewis and Clark, 1804-1806. Gibbons v. Ogden, 22 U.S. 1, 6 L.ed 23 (1824). Elder v. Delcour, 364 Mo. 835, 269 S.W.2d 17 (1954.) Loving v. Alexander, 548 F.Supp. 1079 (1982).
http://www.adventuresports.com/river...law-public.htm

Quote:

1. Which rivers are owned by the public?

The U.S. Supreme Court has held that the bed and banks under all rivers, lakes, and streams that are navigable, for title purposes, are owned by the states, held in trust for the public. Title in this context means ownership. This public-trust ownership extends up to the ordinary high water line, (or ordinary high water mark,) encompassing what is commonly referred to as the submerged and submersible land, as opposed to the upland. This type of navigability is called title navigability.
2. How did the public come to own these rivers and lands?

The Supreme Court has held that navigable rivers, lakes, and streams have been public since ancient times in all civilized societies, and that in colonial America they were held for the public by the King of England. When the original thirteen states took sovereignty of their land from the British after the American Revolution, those states became owners of the land underlying navigable waters. States that subsequently entered the Union have the same ownership rights as the original thirteen states under the Equal Footing Doctrine, and became owners of the land underlying navigable waters as of the date of statehood.

http://www.adventuresports.com/river...w-who-owns.htm

You can read more here
http://www.adventuresports.com/river...s-law-menu.htm

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/script...=450&invol=544

Sam · #34 (**permalink**) 12-31-2006, 04:41 AM

Watch out AYFR you are agreeing with the Democrats in Oregon!

Areyouforreal · #35 (**permalink**) 12-31-2006, 04:53 AM

I was just posting facts. If the Democrats are using facts then yes.
Personally I don't really care one way or the other about ownership of the rivers as I always ask permission before I fish or canoe down a river that is on someones property.

Petey · #36 (**permalink**) 12-31-2006, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carsayzylum

How can you own water? It's always moving and flowing, and what's in the water constantly changes also, I understand that they want to claim a section of the river for their use only, but to me you can only own things that are constant.

This is true.

What about when the water evaporates into the sky and rains down onto someone else's property? Will that be cause for a law suit?