[quote=gixaholic;75049]I would find it hard to beleive that poverty is a byproduct of capatilism. I rather would say captilism a byproduct of poverty and necesity. Capatilism has existing since the begining of man. The thing that makes our form of capatilsm so great is that it's attached to democratic governing body.

Through out history there has been an entrepereal spirit but usually there was a certain level you could reach before you started meddling with the kings or lords or bishops affairs. In our modern day america anyone can start baking cookies out of there kitchen and in ten years have the most popular cookies in the world and at the same time create millions(look up famouse Amos cookies)

well im sure you know about the altria group and the carlysle group...that just bought dunkin donuts...*altria* thats what i mean..sure you can have "start up" $ you have to understand that the people that MADE currancy have always had power...and privilage..money in america wouldn't mean anything if the english didn't MAKE its value...an english dollar didn't mean anything to native american...today it does...and thats a point i'll get into further in this post..i bet the same people that started famous amos sold the company...*just a guess*

That is what capitalism does. It lifts the individual. It allows the individual who wants to work hard and play his cards to do anything they want. It also
motivates the individual to better the his and his family's life with the best that can be provide. And when you have everyone trying to be the best and trying to have the best. You elevate your whole society.

it also displaces the amount of money. this is how they do it..well one way they do it...when they sell "rare" coins ..and the "save this two dollar bill it will be worth way more in somethin somethin years...B.S. thats just to even out inflation rates. your buying money that WHEN originally put out cost nothing..the value is of no REAL substance..just created...by sentimental value...or being rare. and i can stand when people say ...well "its the last of its kind" humans are the "last" of their kind..there will never be another gix.
you gotta ask does simple smarts allow me to take a million american dollars and go to mexico and exchange my money for the peso..i'll be SOOO much richer right? ..well im SURE MOST companys have found this loophole...and thats what further displaces the poor. while the rich allready rich in america..can go over and basically take advantage of "the new kid on the block" i mean...if something cost 5 dollars or 7 dollars which one will you buy?
i allready know the answer...just driving home the point...funny thing about that i was just talking to this guy from india...and he said..he came to america to learn computers..and make money and send it home..his words:" if i want to buy a laptop back home it takes 5 months..here it takes 5 days....so i mean...simple math would tell you by the time you get that computer..in india 1 computer for 5 months..in 5 months in america you can buy 15 computers..." ADVANTAGE AMERICA...and this is how capitalism causes poverty. if you made baskets and i sold corn..we could make that an even playing field..but money destroys that equality..because unlike gross product as they do now...money is the constant displacer that they "assign value to" when 2 corn is equal to 1 basket money can make 1 corn equal to 1 basket...not a fair trade off.

Now when you have the government paying people to not work. What is the motivation for someone to go out and be productive. It really doesn't take much($$) to just get by and live a subsistance life. Hell even in a pure capitlistic society you would have people who choose to live this way just as people do now. But the moment you start paying people to be poor. Then thats when you will have a growing social program problem which we have now. Why work when you get your healthcare, housing, food for free.

well i believe thats some people pay for the mistakes of their parents...simple as that..if my grandma never worked or saved...my mother never did either...ive got zero money saved up for my college...now your parents could be doctors or lawyers...and saved up for your college..now you have ADVANTAGE..

I really enjoyed your anology. And i know you say if everyone was on the same page how much we would be able to accomplish. But if everything was the same there wouldn't be need for change. And without change there wouldn't be progress "even though change can leed to regression aswell"

good point...i believe that things are how they are suppose to be how they are..so we learn..*christian perspective* see even as a christian..i understand that me and a muslim can't be on the same page...but we can get along by all means... if my religion says kill 10 cats and yours says cats are sacred..we have conflict..and this is what its coming to between christians and muslims..both are being misrepresented and "tagged" on the news..like its truth. true islam is peace and true christianity is peace. good point about regression... which we *civilization* are currently in the state of. i mean yea we make advances...but where is the world really headed? you trying to tell me that homeland security can stop all bombs comin over the border...if you can do that..you sure as hell can stop cocaine and weed and whatever else it is..

As far as reperation. My bloodline in this country started in the 70's when my parents moved heer from europe. Now what do we owe the descendants of the slaves. And why should we have to pay. This whole reperations thing is just an attempt to get money for nothing. I can understand if the slaves still lived but not now when atleast 4 generations have passed.

mine too...about the same era my father is an immigrant. the thing is *refer back to native americans* their "reperations" are casino's ...see how long it took to consider it..i mean...the longer you stall the more "ethinically watered down" your bloodline can become..therefore you can't claim to be 'enough' indian to register to a tribe...or the longer you wait the less likely your tribe is "recognized" like me my mother is part narragansett indian...fbi doesn't recognize our tribe yet we have a reservation in RI...this causes not only division among different tribes but also those from your tribal council that will deny you just to have a higher percentage of profits from the casino.....that we have a power every second weekend of august...you see where im going with this? its like having multiple smoke screens with time periods...so when you finally see your way out the first one..the second "smoke screen" pops up...so you never get out...


Well im shure you heard about the hundreds of school buses that could of easily evacuted the whole city that where never used and left to be flooded by the storm.

yea i did..but what about homes lost? where do you go from there?

__________________
Do not let your intelligence corrupt your wisdom.

I dont see where your going with this but if you wanted to you could open up a dunkin dounts. If you wanted you could by a franchisee liscense and your in business. And lets say you could not afford to do a new dunkin operation you could always buy into one. Also you could open up your own donut and coffee shop. Who knows you might be starting the nex dunkin dounts and maybee in 50 years you will be selling to alrtia for billions. Every big company never started big


I kind of see where your goin with this. As far as the collectors peices. No one is forcing anyone to buy any of these things. people are a fickle bunch. Many like to collect other things aswell. Like beenie baby's, watches etc.

And as far as the class warfare you speek of. even before there was currancy and we had the barter system there was still Rich and Poor. There was someone who had more sheep then the other guy. There was somone who had a larger vineyard then the other. Do you see my point. Capitilsm is not the enemy. It's the mentality that captilism is bad that is the problem. You sir would not be standing on this earth if it wasn't for capitlism. There wouldn't be anything.


How do i have the advatage. I find it funny hat you excusse the poor financial decision your parents made. But you deminize the folks who's parents decided to save and live for tommorow and not today. How does someone who's parents saved up for there childrens college eductation vs a persons parents who lacked financial restraint. I know it's tuff out there and you know what you may have a tuffer time then the next guy. But i can almost guarentee you there is someone who has is tuffer then you. Atleast you see that there has to be change and you are trying to make a better life for yourself and for the generations to come.

I can justifying ritucling folks who's parents have set aside for the childrens education and such and there kids just throw it away. I would be more angry at that then the folks who go to school and get an eduction. Even though it is subsidized by there parents.

As for me i have everything i need(and no it does involve material things) I work so eventually when i do have kids that they will have a better life then i did just like my parents did for me. This is the progression i was talking about in my earlier post. The movement towards working for the best.



This is the topic of our day. And yes there is seriouse reprocution if america doesn't end up on top with this one. As far as regression yes there has been allitle bit of this when it comes to this subject. Thats because we are fighting a mentality that is backwards to begin with. But sometimes you need to take a step back to move forward


As far as reperation. My bloodline in this country started in the 70's when my parents moved heer from europe. Now what do we owe the descendants of the slaves. And why should we have to pay. This whole reperations thing is just an attempt to get money for nothing. I can understand if the slaves still lived but not now when atleast 4 generations have passed.

I see your point on this aswell. When it comes to the casino's though the government didn't have to spend money to build these casion's. Private business financed most of the casino's

But do you think you personally should have to pay for the reperations.

[quote=gixaholic;75991]I dont see where your going with this but if you wanted to you could open up a dunkin dounts. If you wanted you could by a franchisee liscense and your in business. And lets say you could not afford to do a new dunkin operation you could always buy into one. Also you could open up your own donut and coffee shop. Who knows you might be starting the nex dunkin dounts and maybee in 50 years you will be selling to alrtia for billions. Every big company never started big

yea...you do have a chance to make it...true indeed. the point i was more or less trying to display was that there are people out there that could buy out damn near every business...and that a person with 1000 dollars will have a harder time making it then the person with 100000 dollars..


I kind of see where your goin with this. As far as the collectors peices. No one is forcing anyone to buy any of these things. people are a fickle bunch. Many like to collect other things aswell. Like beenie baby's, watches etc.

well no ...the point is that they mislead people..kinda like those "sheets of money" that they are selling now..or those coins they sell on qvc...thats how they keep the value of a dollar..by selling money for more then its worth.
never in my life could i imagine spending 50 million dollars on a painting...
no old ass paint of canvas is worth it..

And as far as the class warfare you speek of. even before there was currancy and we had the barter system there was still Rich and Poor. There was someone who had more sheep then the other guy. There was somone who had a larger vineyard then the other. Do you see my point. Capitilsm is not the enemy. It's the mentality that captilism is bad that is the problem. You sir would not be standing on this earth if it wasn't for capitlism. There wouldn't be anything.

true again...i do see your point. but you can't bring a sheep down to mexico and have it be worth more... a sheep is a sheep..money isn't money...other wise there would only be one type of currency. see what im saying?


How do i have the advatage. I find it funny hat you excusse the poor financial decision your parents made. But you deminize the folks who's parents decided to save and live for tommorow and not today. How does someone who's parents saved up for there childrens college eductation vs a persons parents who lacked financial restraint. I know it's tuff out there and you know what you may have a tuffer time then the next guy. But i can almost guarentee you there is someone who has is tuffer then you. Atleast you see that there has to be change and you are trying to make a better life for yourself and for the generations to come.

i don't excuse them..but if society teaches them things..who's to be held accountable the teacher or the student? i don't judge folks that parents set it up for their future..im happy for them.i just recognize..that people are placed in situations..that aren't fair. thats all gix..

I can justifying ritucling folks who's parents have set aside for the childrens education and such and there kids just throw it away. I would be more angry at that then the folks who go to school and get an eduction. Even though it is subsidized by there parents.



As for me i have everything i need(and no it does involve material things) I work so eventually when i do have kids that they will have a better life then i did just like my parents did for me. This is the progression i was talking about in my earlier post. The movement towards working for the best.

good thing you understand that you have to get on your own two before you can put somebody else on their own two..


This is the topic of our day. And yes there is seriouse reprocution if america doesn't end up on top with this one. As far as regression yes there has been allitle bit of this when it comes to this subject. Thats because we are fighting a mentality that is backwards to begin with. But sometimes you need to take a step back to move forward


As far as reperation. My bloodline in this country started in the 70's when my parents moved heer from europe. Now what do we owe the descendants of the slaves. And why should we have to pay. This whole reperations thing is just an attempt to get money for nothing. I can understand if the slaves still lived but not now when atleast 4 generations have passed.



I see your point on this aswell. When it comes to the casino's though the government didn't have to spend money to build these casion's. Private business financed most of the casino's

who owns the businesses that backed them..ones that allready made their money taking from the indians and then making more money off them?
or just small mom and pops that got big?

But do you think you personally should have to pay for the reperations.

No i don't believe that we *taxpayers* should have to pay for it now..they should have done it back then when the problem was fresh...they stalled on the issue ..and these are the reporcussions of their actions.

__________________
Do not let your intelligence corrupt your wisdom.

[quote=Truthwrappedinlies;74919]God is in your corner eh?
How holy of you.
I'd like you to elaborate on corporations shitting on third world countries..
Sweat shops?
You better secure your premises buddy.
Big corporations get bigger when you buy into it.
I have a hard time believing a starving man would give his last can of tuna away in a world of looters..
Let me point out that Robin hood was a thief..period.
Altruism has its price doesn't it?
I mean if I earned a 100 cans of tuna and you earned one, then somehow this makes me evil and greedy?
But of course God is on YOUR side, not as if God considers me his own as well!
Perhaps someone comes along with his one can of tuna and makes 10 meals out that can of tuna and feeds 10 families with this can?
AH! there's the rub.
Where is the value in giving away your last can of tuna?
Where does YOUR moral code begin and end within the value of one can of tuna?
You're judging my values while I earn 100 cans of tuna is emblamatic of the disfunctional ethics behind a socialism and a welfare system.
In a society of consumerism and instant gratification, where everything is redistributed, giving away your last can of tuna sounds fairly predictable.
You'll just go steal another and the starving beats on.

__________________

"The world is a fine place and worth fighting for" Ernest Hemingway

"The world will know that free men stood against a tyrant, that few stood against many" Spartan King Leonidas

[quote=monkeyinthemiddle;76670]if you have a hard time understanding giving your last then you just don't understand the concept of god nor jesus. im telling you i'd starve to death in order for your life to keep on..not to prove you wrong...but to show you the right way of jesus..but lets not limit that to tuna..it breaks down to all aspects. id give your child the coat off my back if you and him/her got caught out in a blizzard..with no place to go..id sacrifice my life for the cause...of teaching your children what the lords love can achieve...and how powerful it really is.

if you made 100 cans of tuna and you saw others starving and you didn't share..or feed them..yea you would be evil and greedy..nobody is asking for ALL of your tuna...and NO if you are evil you are not of god..you are of satan. yea he MIGHT have created you..but god didn't create everybody by himself... "let us create man in our image" look in genesis dude. our = more then one person...and god has cursed evil throughout all of mans history. he preaches equality and family..if you saw your blood brother or sister starving would you feed them?

if i was one to steal i wouldn't give...

__________________
Do not let your intelligence corrupt your wisdom.