Capitalism in its Death Throes

Roman · #41 (**permalink**) 10-13-2006, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikeydude

capitalism is a race . that is fine in and of itself. makes america a great nation. inventions and investments. the problem comes from mature capitalisms, where those at the top become so efficient at what they do that they control the market. the nation benifits from the race, not the victory. soon markets are as closed as they are in any socialism. the great circle. dont believe me? try to open a retail store next to wal-mart. they have a firm grip on that market and with it the ability to make or break other companies that they decide to stock or not stock on their shelves. if they favor widgets from company a over widgets from company b you can rest assured that company b will certainly have a rough go of it if they stay in business at all. market choices are then made by the seller not the consumer, which is not unlike the choice of grey shirts or grey shirts the soviet offerd their population.

You can put a retail store next to Wal-Mart and compete you just have to target a different market. Like Target, Best Buy, Old Navy, etc.; all these industry giants made way after Wal-MArt but how could this be???

mikeydude · #42 (**permalink**) 10-14-2006, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Capitalist Pig

If I happen to be a manufacturer of "widgets", than assuming that the widgets I produce are of high quality, than I imagine that I could find a distributor for them. If Wal Mart turns me down, than lucky for me Wal Mart is not the only game in town. No matter how much you want to brand Wal Mart as having a monopoly on the discount retail market, it simply isn't true. What about Sam's Club, Cosco, Target, Kmart and a score of similar companies all over the country. The problem I see is that liberals think the market isnt fair unless anybody anywhere can start any business they want and then be gauranteed success. True, you can start any business you want, but if you want to get into something competitive than you had better bring something new to the table. You cant expect to try to compete with Wal Mart at Wal Mart's game right next to a freakin Wal Mart. The idea is to examine a community, and do a little research. Find out what a community needs, and give it to them. Just because you cant open a little tiny retail store right next to Wal Mart, does not mean that capitalism is flawed. Liberals are always trying to trash Wal Mart because they are successful. And if there is one thing Liberal's hate, its Americans succeeding at the things that make America great. Because if everybody was happy and successful, nobody would vote for the party that advocates class envy.

i used the example of wal-mart because it is successful. i am not trying to tell you that Wal-Mart is evil.they are doing what any other chain tries to do.it is part of the game. you say you cant expect to compete with Wal-Mart at its own game. you readily dismiss whole portions of the economy that are now off limits to individuals. food,manufacturing,retail sales are ruled by multinational corporations,chains and franchises.what would be the reason for this trend to stop??? it would stand to reason that if Wal-Mart and Target can capture monsterous portions of the retail market,someone else certainly could do it with auto repair or home building or any market.my point is simple, a mature capitalism is not stationary and will by its very nature move towards bigger companies controling bigger portions of any given market.

you assume too much. i do not hate capitalism because i point out its flaws. the real shame for america is from those who question nothing and never prepare for change.

Kix · #43 (**permalink**) 10-15-2006, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pravda

The system of capitalism itself is getting closer and closer to an inevitable collapse. Dissatisfiaction with the way things are going in the U.S. is getting higher and higher every year - and right now, Bush, the chief capitalist who defines "pig," is getting ratings at his lowest point in his presidency. People just aren't going to put up with making minimum wage forever - hours upon hours slaving away for a system that concentrates its profits with a tiny percentage of the people. The wealth needs to be spread around, and unless we start thinking of ways to do that and change our system to be more humanizing, the revolution is going to be soon and it is going to be violent.

So, you want someone to come up with a plan for making sure that the wealthy capitalists are forced to share their wealth with those who are not wealthy even though those who are not wealthy have the same right to seek wealth that the wealthy have and only lack the desire to work hard to achieve it.

HARK!! Someone already came up with that plan... it's called STRONG ARM ROBBERY and it's illegal. However, hard work and intelligence is still legal. If you want wealth, stop depending on someone else to hand it to you, because the unalienable right to the pursuit of happiness is not a guarantee of wealth, property, or anything else that makes you happy.

Silverhair · #44 (**permalink**) 10-15-2006, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikeydude

SNIP... try to open a retail store next to wal-mart. they have a firm grip on that market and with it the ability to make or break other companies that they decide to stock or not stock on their shelves.

Once upon a time you would have said the same thing about Sears. Where are they today? They are still around, but not the giant they once were.

There have been several retail giants in America's history, and in their time each one would have looked unbeatable, yet each one slipped, toppled by an innovator. It wasn't so long ago that Wal-Mart was a single store in Benton, AR.

Somebody will topple Wal-Mart when they see a change in America that WM doesn't see.

And you can still operate a Mom & Pop store close to a WM, but you have to offer something that WM doesn't offer. An example would be a clothing store that specializes in Western Wear in Texas. WM's buying decisions are highly centralized so the stores in New York and in Arizona tend to carry the same stuff. WM has other weaknesses that can be exploited. Don't go head to head with WM, you will get crushed. Instead, find a niche and get rich.

Silverhair · #45 (**permalink**) 10-15-2006, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikeydude

SNIP my point is simple, a mature capitalism is not stationary and will by its very nature move towards bigger companies controling bigger portions of any given market.

Your error is that you forget that markets themselves are moving. Nor are big companies bad or invunerable. Please be aware that the transistor was NOT developed in somebodies' garage. It was the result of a supercorporation's R&D (Bell Labs IIRC, but I could be wrong). The first intergrated chip was made by Texas Instruments. Look at the effect upon humanity that solid state electronics has had. I can list many positive things that supercorps have done and that only a supercorp could have done.

Nor are they invunerable, even at their own game. GM and Ford, after WWII, held world dominance on the automotive market. The German and Japanese cars were laughed at. Who is laughing now? There are many other examples of dominant companies that have been brought low at their own game.

I_Hate_the_Nazi_Right · #46 (**permalink**) 10-15-2006, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silverhair

Death Throes??? Not even. Communism has died, although it's ghost still lingers on a few college campuses. Socialism is dying.

India has made a dramatic economic recovery, because they gave up on socialism and turned to capitalism. Same for China.

Everywhere in the globe that socialism has been tried, it has been a disaster, and for the same reasons. They are:

Socialism REQUIRES central planning of the economy, and that is impossible to do correctly. Nobody can adequately forsee the future, so the plan is always wrong. But since, under socialism, economic decisions are first political decisions, socialism is not able to respond to change. Socialism always looks to the past. (Capitalism decentralizes economic decision making so capitalism is able to respond quickly. Further, capitalism looks to the future.)

Socialism destroys the incentive to innovate and maximize production. Socialist systems always have very high taxes. In othere words, they make everyone a slave worker for the gov't. Slaves are not productive workers.

Last time I checked China was still Communist...

I_Hate_the_Nazi_Right · #47 (**permalink**) 10-15-2006, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Capitalist Pig

Companies move overseas because liberals in America do their best to make sure corporations based here at home make no profit. If you are making money, then you must be doing something evil, and/or not paying your workers enough. So eventually you force all major businesses to leave America and find a place where their business can prosper.

You have no concept of reality man... Last time I checked some companies like Toyota are doing great and highly paying their AMERICAN WORKERS... You want to talk about welfare let's start by talking about all of the Corporate Welfare that goes on everyday. These companies BLOW the money of their investors then take CEO (overblown) salaries in the millions, then old Uncle Sam comes in to bail them out. I'd like to see the social programs versus the corporate social programs costs in this country.

Dom1 · #48 (**permalink**) 10-15-2006, 11:47 PM

China has loosened some of the restrictions and do have some aspects of capitalism. Hong Kong is an example. It is not capitalism as we are accustomed to, but it is not communism as the old Soviet Empire would recognize either.

It is also strange that a communist nation does not allow labor unions. Seems to go against the whole idea of communism or socialism.

mikeydude · #49 (**permalink**) 10-16-2006, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silverhair

Your error is that you forget that markets themselves are moving. Nor are big companies bad or invunerable. Please be aware that the transistor was NOT developed in somebodies' garage. It was the result of a supercorporation's R&D (Bell Labs IIRC, but I could be wrong). The first intergrated chip was made by Texas Instruments. Look at the effect upon humanity that solid state electronics has had. I can list many positive things that supercorps have done and that only a supercorp could have done.

Nor are they invunerable, even at their own game. GM and Ford, after WWII, held world dominance on the automotive market. The German and Japanese cars were laughed at. Who is laughing now? There are many other examples of dominant companies that have been brought low at their own game.

big companies are big because they sell or build something well.
the business landscape has been changed thru companies like sears,wards,k-mart and now wal-mart. i do not expect one company to be at the top forever. what i do expect to find however is the company that takes over from wal-mart will be bigger and better at rolling back prices than wal-mart is. each one like a step to higher level, the base point further and further away from common people.the standard has been set and will move in the direction the industry giants lead it towards with profit.as i have asked before, what would be the reason for chains and franchising not to bleed into every market?? you mention western wear.......corrals west a western wear chain. they opend not long ago in my dusty new mexico city and by all accounts are pounding the local competion.
capitalism forces business to be better, cheaper and adaptable. the very success of the idea will eventualy make business so competitive that it will be very hard for any individual to compete.this race towards the efficient will make products improve, the prices will drop, the markets will grow and compines will have to be bigger. the game will not get smaller.

Silverhair · #50 (**permalink**) 10-16-2006, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I_Hate_the_Nazi_Right

Last time I checked China was still Communist...

In name only. They are rapidly moving to Capitalism.